tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post3209891636297970979..comments2024-03-22T03:19:38.110-04:00Comments on Forever In Hell: Confusing Cause and EffectPersonalFailurehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03034292023591747601noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-14743955365465752482009-12-26T12:04:58.222-05:002009-12-26T12:04:58.222-05:00The problem really is just the interplay of religi...The problem really is just the interplay of religion and science. People who might otherwise be libertarian for political reasons are connecting it with their religion. It isn't fundamentally different than when liberal Christians point to the Bible as a reason to support welfare or such. The primary difference is that you (and probably most of your readers for that matter) don't mind the liberal Christian as much and so we sort of let it slide. They are also a bit less in your face and dogmatic about it. But the difference really is one of degree not of kind.Joshuahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00637936588223855248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-41778434395751021852009-12-23T13:00:51.833-05:002009-12-23T13:00:51.833-05:00Cont'd
Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton)...Cont'd<br /><br />Clothing Made from Crops (e.g. cotton) That Were Grown With or That Contain Inputs From Government Subsidies <br />If a veteran of the government-run socialist US military, I will forego my VA benefits and insist on paying for my own medical care <br />I will not tour socialist government buildings like the Capitol in Washington, D.C. <br />I pledge to never take myself, my family, or my children on a tour of the following types of socialist <br />locations, including but not limited to: <br />Smithsonian Museums such as the Air and Space Museum or Museum of American History <br />The socialist Washington, Lincoln, and Jefferson Monuments <br />The government-operated Statue of Liberty <br />The Grand Canyon <br />The socialist World War II and Vietnam Veterans Memorials <br />The government-run socialist-propaganda location known as Arlington National Cemetery <br />All other public-funded socialist sites, whether it be in my state or in Washington, DC <br />I will urge my Member of Congress and Senators to forego their government salary and government-provided healthcare. <br />I will oppose and condemn the government-funded and therefore socialist military of the United States of America. <br />I will boycott the products of socialist defense contractors such as GE, Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics, Raytheon, Humana, FedEx, General Motors, Honeywell, and hundreds of others that are paid by our socialist government to produce goods for our socialist army. <br />I will protest socialist security departments such as the Pentagon, FBI, CIA, Department of Homeland Security, TSA, Department of Justice and their socialist employees. <br />Upon reaching eligible retirement age, I will tear up my socialist Social Security checks. <br />Upon reaching age 65, I will forego Medicare and pay for my own private health insurance until I die. <br />SWORN ON A BIBLE AND SIGNED THIS DAY OF ____________ IN THE YEAR ______________.Froggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-876452879133943222009-12-23T13:00:20.513-05:002009-12-23T13:00:20.513-05:00PF,
Good post. Before having a conversation with ...PF,<br />Good post. Before having a conversation with Libertarians/ ultra conservative types, have them sign the following pledge.<br />You may have seen this. I stole this from somewhere on the internet- can't remember where:<br /><br />Socialist-Free Purity Pledge <br />I, ________________________________, do solemnly swear to uphold the principles of a socialism-free society and heretofore pledge my word that I shall strictly adhere to the following: <br />I pledge to eliminate all government intervention in my life. I will abstain from the use of and participation in any socialist goods and services including but not limited to the following: <br />Social Security <br />Medicare/Medicaid<br />Unemployment Insurance <br />State Children’s Health Insurance Programs (SCHIP) <br />Police, Fire, and Emergency Services <br />US Postal Service <br />Roads and Highways <br />Air Travel (regulated by the socialist FAA) <br />The US Railway System <br />Public Subways and Metro Systems <br />Public Bus and Lightrail Systems <br />Rest Areas on Highways <br />Sidewalks <br />All Government-Funded Local/State Projects (e.g., see Iowa 2009federal senate appropriations–http://grassley.senate.gov/issues/upload/Master-Approps-73109.pdf) <br />Public Water and Sewer Services (goodbye socialist toilet, shower, dishwasher, kitchen sink, outdoor hose!) <br />Public and State Universities and Colleges <br />Public Primary and Secondary Schools <br />Sesame Street <br />Publicly Funded Anti-Drug Use Education for Children <br />Public Museums <br />Libraries <br />Public Parksand Beaches <br />State and National Parks <br />Public Zoos <br />Unemployment Insurance <br />Municipal Garbage and Recycling Services <br />Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, Stateor Federal Government (pretty much all of them) <br />Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them)<br />Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions) <br />Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD’s ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking <br />Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies <br /><br />Cont'dFroggiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972110380349786742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-31298841882825496582009-12-23T04:50:41.898-05:002009-12-23T04:50:41.898-05:00"Keep in mind, in order to be supported by yo..."Keep in mind, in order to be supported by your children, three things need to happen, (a) you have to have children, (b) those children need to survive to adulthood, not a guaranteed thing when Social Security was created, or even today, and (c) those children need to be doing well enough financially to support you."<br /><br />You forgot (d) your children need to be WILLING to support you.<br /><br />And so it comes back around to "I would if you didn't make me, but when you don't make me, I still don't"Big Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01534995604187556023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-64422904908337120292009-12-22T16:27:55.311-05:002009-12-22T16:27:55.311-05:00@ Joé McKen -
Yes... and if that were how it wer...@ Joé McKen - <br /><br />Yes... and if that were how it were presented to me, I would have considerably more respect for it as a movement. In my day-to-day interactions, however, most of the people who self-identify as libertarians: <br />A) Either don't know what they're talking about, or apply the philosophy in a suspiciously selective fashion (i.e. social programs actually are okay if and when they benefit me)<br />B) Seem little concerned with individual freedoms, and passionately concerned about the possibility that someone, somewhere might be getting something that they haven't earned.<br /><br />While I'm sure there are principled libertarians out there, most of the ones I meet seem to be selfish and/or short-sighted people who use the term as a cloak for their fundamental selfishness.<br /><br />So for me, at least, the term draws fire not because of the philosophy <i>per se</i>, but because of the real-world attitudes and actions that it gets used to justify.<br /><br />::shrugs::Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-44932237254133491702009-12-22T16:09:35.210-05:002009-12-22T16:09:35.210-05:00I agree with communism being a valid on paper (and...I agree with communism being a valid on paper (and I wonder how many would wanna shoot us doggone commie pinkos for saying that? =P), and it would work perfectly fine in real life it it wasn’t for the inevitable mountains of corruption where all the funds are stripped from the people and used to finance militaries and whatnot. *Sigh*<br /><br />Libertarianism, as far as I understand it (though mostly from the two blogs I mentioned earlier), basically advocated giving people the greatest amount of individual freedoms and rights possible whilst staying within reason. It’s pretty much the antithesis of the Nanny State, so-to-speak. It’s not anti-government, but merely anti-governmental <em>interfering</em>.Joé McKenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08037015111554209304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-14923223725302334322009-12-22T16:03:38.574-05:002009-12-22T16:03:38.574-05:00It was a little hard to tell.
I suppose I should ...It was a little hard to tell.<br /><br />I suppose I should make a distinction between pure Libertarian principles and what really gets proposed in real life, though I generally don't. <br /><br />Libertarianism is like communism to me: good in theory, bad in practice. Neither philosophy really accounts for how people actually act in real life.PersonalFailurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034292023591747601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-57681867295735886872009-12-22T15:25:06.807-05:002009-12-22T15:25:06.807-05:00I really don’t get how or why people seem to keep ...I really don’t get how or why people seem to keep confusing Libertarianism/Libertarian principles, and plain selfishness, greed, arrogance, and whatever. I’m not a Libertarian, but their principles are really quite sensible and reasonable, even if I don’t agree with all of them. Hell, check out <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/" rel="nofollow">Ed Brayton</a>’s or <a href="http://www.theagitator.com/" rel="nofollow">Radley Balko</a>’s blogs for prominent examples of staunch Libertarianism; I really don’t get all the hate aimed at it.<br /><br />Okay, little semi-off-topic rant over. On-topic: the American Catholic obviously doesn’t know what he’s talking about, if he actually thinks social programs hurt people rather than help them (or whatever he meant; it was kinda hard to tell).Joé McKenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08037015111554209304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1334761054277672365.post-23155352734712362772009-12-22T15:22:39.671-05:002009-12-22T15:22:39.671-05:00Anecdote rather than data, but... among the people...Anecdote rather than data, but... among the people I know, the ones who espouse those semi-libertarian viewpoint are almost always the ones who received (and in many cases, continue to receive) an awful lot of monetary (and other) assistance from their parents. So I'm going with either disingenuous, or seriously lacking in basic self-awareness.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.com