I'm Fairly Certain "Debate" Is Not a Synonym for "Lie"

I could be wrong.

After all, I dropped out of the debate team in high school after one week*, and Chris Jeub flies all over the country with his (students') debate team. So I guess if debating could best be described as "liar, liar, pants on fire!", he is the expert.

The 25,000 Wisconsin teachers would have my support, perhaps, if they rallied for higher educational standards. But for benefits? Six-figure incomes for classroom teachers? This is what motivates them to rebel against their school district and their families and ultimately the children they teach?

Six figures, Chris? Is there any possible place you could have gotten an implied quarter of a fucking million dollars other than your ass?

Let's check. According to Teacher World, which Chris links to when called out on this on Facebook, the average starting salary for teachers in Wisconsin is $25,000. That's not much more than I make, and that's for people that have Bachelor's degrees, are required to keep up with continuing education and put up with other people's children all day. You would have to multiply that by 4 to get into "six-figure[s]".

Well, that's starting salary. What about average salary? Maybe they get some rockin' pay raises. Nope. Average salary is $46,000. You'd have have to get together 2 teachers and the spleen and liver of another to get into six figures.

Where ever did the Debate King get $100,000 (minimum)? Well, the highest possible starting salary is $68,000- still not six figures- but that's for someone with decades of experience and enough continuing ed credits to qualify for a PhD.

Chris Jeub, you are a liar. I'd recommend not wearing pants anytime soon.

*"Buncha arrogant pricks!" was my reason. And then I got a blog. And sometimes I think, "So . . . how am I different from from the arrogant pricks now? And then the part of my mind that handles self esteem pipes up with "It's totally different!" And I go with that, because life is short and I like blogging.

La La La La La - I Can't Hear You!

10 more siblings and her life will be fantastic!

I have previously dealt with the Jeubs' (a Quiverfull family that makes a living selling other people on Quiverfull) disingenuous arguments concerning unrestrained baby making and poverty here and here. They're at it again, it's Monday and I'm at a bit of a loss for something else to write about*, so here we go.

Many got what we were saying. Glum financial circumstances have hit most people at some time in their life, especially today. And we so identify! While these times may not be enjoyable, few can confess that they were absolutely debilitating. Whose to say that God can’t reach into the glummest of circumstances and pull people through? We prefer to give hope, not doom.

But a number of people insisted on doom. Read through the 100+ posts, some posts with an attitude like, “How dare you say poverty isn’t bad. It is very, very bad!” And they rattled off the worst of scenarios (famine, starvation, abuse, drug addiction, homelessness, etc.) as if to say, “Seeeee how bad it can get?”

Such hopelessness. Do people really believe money is that much of a determiner of their fate? Apparently so. Does poverty define a person (or wealth, for that matter)? It doesn’t for us. And we don’t believe it should be for anyone!

"Worst of scenarios"? Those are peoples' lives asshat! Right now, in this country, all over the world, famine, starvation, homelessness, etc. are peoples' lives. That is how people, right now, are living. Whether poverty "defines" people or not is rather irrelevant to this particular discussion.

Remember, the Jeubs call upon everyone, regardless of circumstance, to have as many babies as is humanly possible. If you know who the Duggars are, you know what I'm talking about. To the Jeubs, there are no reasons, none at all, to not have 20 children. That's why all the posturing about poverty. Poverty is a damn good reason not to have children. Famines and homelessness are not fixed by adding another person to your family. All you do in that situation is create another starving, homeless person. There's nothing in any of these posts by the Jeubs that actually deals with the issue of how having to divide limited reasons n+1 ways helps anything.

Well, it's dogma, don't expect answers there. It's not like the Pope has ever explained how a million more children ends a famine. (Although Jonathon Swift did . . .)

*What the fuck was up with the Black Eyed Peas? Is that just their thing?

Follow Up: What's So Bad About Poverty Gets Hilarious

This is poverty.

Yesterday, the Jeub family, purveyors of such fine titles as "Love in the Kitchen*" and "Love Another Child" asked just What's So Bad About Poverty.

Hilariously, a large number of people decided to tell the Jeubs exactly what is so bad about poverty, and call them on the idea that they are living in poverty. The Jeubs claim to live in poverty for one very good reason: they live on the incomes from their books. Their books advocate Quiverfull philosophy- have as many children as possible, regardless of finances, desire, general health, etc. So, in order to answer critics who ask, "What about families that can't feed the children they have, let alone ten more?", the Jeubs say, "Hey, we're poor and we do just fine."

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't consider people who fly all over the country with their debate team to be poor. I don't consider people who buy 7 turkeys at Thanksgiving and freeze 6 of them in their stand alone freezer to be poor. I certainly don't consider not buying a passenger van a sign of poverty.

So what do the Jeubs hang their poverty hat on? The US federal guidelines for poverty. Yup, that's it. Mind you, for a family their size, that's around $80,000, and the federal government is assuming you spend money on child care and traveling to and from work which the Jeubs do not, and is averaged from expensive places like San Francisco to much less expensive places where the Jeubs live.

Several commentors tried to explain this to them, but Mr. Jeub is a master debater [insert joke here], and equally masterful at deleting comments and banning people. You can click here and check it out for yourself, or you can trust my summary of the debate.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

People Living in Reality: You buy 7 turkeys at Thanksgiving and freeze of them in your stand alone freezer. You are not poverty stricken.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

PLiR: You fly all over the country with your debate team, poverty stricken people do not do that. Poverty stricken people can't pay for a bus ride.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

PLiR: We've all seen your blog. You have a home, heat, electricity, running water, an internet connection, plentiful food, cheap health insurance, clothing for your children, the list goes on. You have no idea what poverty is. You are not addressing the issue of preventing pregnancies due to poverty.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line. I am the master! Ai winz teh debatez!

PLiR: Repeating the same discredited statement until the other person gives up in disgust is not debating and you are not winning anything.

Jeub: Ha ha ha! I win, you lose! Looooooser!

PLiR: Oh, fuck you.

Jeub: You said a baaaaad wooooord! Ai winz! Ai winz all ur debatez fur all timez!

PLiR: In about ten seconds, nobody is going to care what I said . . .

You know, I just noticed that post was labeled "part 1". Hee hee!

*Here, I'll save you some money (please skip if you are eating disordered): You probably eat more than you think you do. The portion sizes they base calorie counts on are small. As in, you probably eat 3 times as much cereal as one 120 calorie portion. So keep track of what you eat, and here's some recipes. There, saved you $20.

What's So Bad About Poverty?

According to the Jeubs, what this child needs is more brothers and sisters.

The Jeubs are a Quiverfull family that appears to survive by producing books and such encouraging us all to pop out as many babies as is possible until our uteri give up or we die. And boy are they cheerful about it! Think Flanders levels of wholesome good cheer.

They have been asked, repeatedly, "what about poverty"? What about people who simply cannot afford the children they have, let alone another 10? Like all good fundys, the Jeubs just can't answer the question, or even entertain it, really. Which leads us to today's post that ponders the question What's So Bad About Poverty*?

I dunno. Let's see.

Approximately 20% of Americans live in poverty. How does it affect them?

The effects of poverty are serious. Children who grow up in poverty suffer more persistent, frequent, and severe health problems than do children who grow up under better financial circumstances.

• Many infants born into poverty have a low birth weight, which is associated with many preventable mental and physical disabilities. Not only are these poor infants more likely to be irritable or sickly, they are also more likely to die before their first birthday.

• Children raised in poverty tend to miss school more often because of illness. These children also have a much higher rate of accidents than do other children, and they are twice as likely to have impaired vision and hearing, iron deficiency anemia, and higher than normal levels of lead in the blood, which can impair brain function.

So, the Jeubs advocate that low birth weight babies likely to grow into children with serious health problems, born into families without the resources to deal with those health problems are a good thing. We should have millions more. Right now.

Levels of stress in the family have also been shown to correlate with economic circumstances. Studies during economic recessions indicate that job loss and subsequent poverty are associated with violence in families, including child and elder abuse.

Seems like something else we'd want to avoid. Unless you're a Jeub, apparently.

It wasn't difficult for me to find this information, and what I quoted was just a drop in the bucket. I do agree with the Jeubs that not having the money for expensive toys or summer camps is hardly child abuse, but consistently not having money for food and clothing and heat is a problem. A problem that will not be solved by adding more children and smiling a lot. Although I suppose buying their book would help them with poverty at least.

Seriously, look at that picture above, borrowed from a great post on Bright Nepenthe. Really look at it. That's unrestrained breeding. That's having babies despite poverty, the sort of extreme poverty we don't really have in the US. Do you really think that, if given the option of controlling fertility, the mother of that child wouldn't have trampled your ass to get some birth control? Do you really think that, if confronted by the Jeubs' cheerful declaration that poverty is no big deal, she wouldn't smack them six times, and then a seventh for good measure? The Jeubs challenge us to "love another child". Look at that child and tell me that love alone is enough.

*They seem determined to prove their poor creds, but in this same article, they cite not being able to buy a van they want as evidence of their own poverty. Cry me a river, asshats.