He's In Ur Government Imposin His Religious Beliefs

I would call this book a warning, others call it a good place to start.

I'm sure by now you've heard about the Miscarriage as Murder bill in Georgia (have you guys considered keeping the peaches and exporting the crazies?), but what I haven't seen anywhere other than a message board devoted to discussions of religious zealotry is the background behind it.

Theocracy. Scary, scary theocracy.

The bill's sponsor is Republican Billy Franklin, who, as it turns out, attends

Chalcedon Presbyterian in Cumming, GA, where Joe Morecraft III is pastor. That would be Pastor Joe Morecraft III, Vision Forum speaker and writer

If you're not familiar with Vision Forum, they're Quiverfullers. Quiverfull theology is based upon one little line in the Bible, and includes adherents like the Duggars (19 children), the Bates (pregnant with #19) and the Jeubs (pregnant with # 16). Their religion is pretty simple: women are to produce as many babies as they possibly can, ignoring health, sanity and finances, while submitting to the husbands and staying home to cook and clean and homeschool. In Quiverfull theology, women are useful for producing babies and have literally no other purpose. Girls are raised to never have dreams or hopes. Boys are raised to be dictators "leaders in the home".

And Billy Franklin wants to make it the law of the land. It's a testament to how far the Dominionist movement has come that while most everyone looked at this bill and said GAH!, the theocratic elements of it are so mainstream at this point, that most people argued the logistics of checking out every miscarriage, not the religion behind the imperative to do so.

I really hope I'm dead before The Handmaid's Tale becomes law. I really do.

La La La La La - I Can't Hear You!

10 more siblings and her life will be fantastic!

I have previously dealt with the Jeubs' (a Quiverfull family that makes a living selling other people on Quiverfull) disingenuous arguments concerning unrestrained baby making and poverty here and here. They're at it again, it's Monday and I'm at a bit of a loss for something else to write about*, so here we go.

Many got what we were saying. Glum financial circumstances have hit most people at some time in their life, especially today. And we so identify! While these times may not be enjoyable, few can confess that they were absolutely debilitating. Whose to say that God can’t reach into the glummest of circumstances and pull people through? We prefer to give hope, not doom.

But a number of people insisted on doom. Read through the 100+ posts, some posts with an attitude like, “How dare you say poverty isn’t bad. It is very, very bad!” And they rattled off the worst of scenarios (famine, starvation, abuse, drug addiction, homelessness, etc.) as if to say, “Seeeee how bad it can get?”

Such hopelessness. Do people really believe money is that much of a determiner of their fate? Apparently so. Does poverty define a person (or wealth, for that matter)? It doesn’t for us. And we don’t believe it should be for anyone!

"Worst of scenarios"? Those are peoples' lives asshat! Right now, in this country, all over the world, famine, starvation, homelessness, etc. are peoples' lives. That is how people, right now, are living. Whether poverty "defines" people or not is rather irrelevant to this particular discussion.

Remember, the Jeubs call upon everyone, regardless of circumstance, to have as many babies as is humanly possible. If you know who the Duggars are, you know what I'm talking about. To the Jeubs, there are no reasons, none at all, to not have 20 children. That's why all the posturing about poverty. Poverty is a damn good reason not to have children. Famines and homelessness are not fixed by adding another person to your family. All you do in that situation is create another starving, homeless person. There's nothing in any of these posts by the Jeubs that actually deals with the issue of how having to divide limited reasons n+1 ways helps anything.

Well, it's dogma, don't expect answers there. It's not like the Pope has ever explained how a million more children ends a famine. (Although Jonathon Swift did . . .)

*What the fuck was up with the Black Eyed Peas? Is that just their thing?

Follow Up: What's So Bad About Poverty Gets Hilarious

This is poverty.

Yesterday, the Jeub family, purveyors of such fine titles as "Love in the Kitchen*" and "Love Another Child" asked just What's So Bad About Poverty.

Hilariously, a large number of people decided to tell the Jeubs exactly what is so bad about poverty, and call them on the idea that they are living in poverty. The Jeubs claim to live in poverty for one very good reason: they live on the incomes from their books. Their books advocate Quiverfull philosophy- have as many children as possible, regardless of finances, desire, general health, etc. So, in order to answer critics who ask, "What about families that can't feed the children they have, let alone ten more?", the Jeubs say, "Hey, we're poor and we do just fine."

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't consider people who fly all over the country with their debate team to be poor. I don't consider people who buy 7 turkeys at Thanksgiving and freeze 6 of them in their stand alone freezer to be poor. I certainly don't consider not buying a passenger van a sign of poverty.

So what do the Jeubs hang their poverty hat on? The US federal guidelines for poverty. Yup, that's it. Mind you, for a family their size, that's around $80,000, and the federal government is assuming you spend money on child care and traveling to and from work which the Jeubs do not, and is averaged from expensive places like San Francisco to much less expensive places where the Jeubs live.

Several commentors tried to explain this to them, but Mr. Jeub is a master debater [insert joke here], and equally masterful at deleting comments and banning people. You can click here and check it out for yourself, or you can trust my summary of the debate.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

People Living in Reality: You buy 7 turkeys at Thanksgiving and freeze of them in your stand alone freezer. You are not poverty stricken.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

PLiR: You fly all over the country with your debate team, poverty stricken people do not do that. Poverty stricken people can't pay for a bus ride.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line.

PLiR: We've all seen your blog. You have a home, heat, electricity, running water, an internet connection, plentiful food, cheap health insurance, clothing for your children, the list goes on. You have no idea what poverty is. You are not addressing the issue of preventing pregnancies due to poverty.

Jeub: I understand poverty- I live under the federal poverty line. I am the master! Ai winz teh debatez!

PLiR: Repeating the same discredited statement until the other person gives up in disgust is not debating and you are not winning anything.

Jeub: Ha ha ha! I win, you lose! Looooooser!

PLiR: Oh, fuck you.

Jeub: You said a baaaaad wooooord! Ai winz! Ai winz all ur debatez fur all timez!

PLiR: In about ten seconds, nobody is going to care what I said . . .

You know, I just noticed that post was labeled "part 1". Hee hee!

*Here, I'll save you some money (please skip if you are eating disordered): You probably eat more than you think you do. The portion sizes they base calorie counts on are small. As in, you probably eat 3 times as much cereal as one 120 calorie portion. So keep track of what you eat, and here's some recipes. There, saved you $20.

What's So Bad About Poverty?

According to the Jeubs, what this child needs is more brothers and sisters.

The Jeubs are a Quiverfull family that appears to survive by producing books and such encouraging us all to pop out as many babies as is possible until our uteri give up or we die. And boy are they cheerful about it! Think Flanders levels of wholesome good cheer.

They have been asked, repeatedly, "what about poverty"? What about people who simply cannot afford the children they have, let alone another 10? Like all good fundys, the Jeubs just can't answer the question, or even entertain it, really. Which leads us to today's post that ponders the question What's So Bad About Poverty*?

I dunno. Let's see.

Approximately 20% of Americans live in poverty. How does it affect them?

The effects of poverty are serious. Children who grow up in poverty suffer more persistent, frequent, and severe health problems than do children who grow up under better financial circumstances.

• Many infants born into poverty have a low birth weight, which is associated with many preventable mental and physical disabilities. Not only are these poor infants more likely to be irritable or sickly, they are also more likely to die before their first birthday.

• Children raised in poverty tend to miss school more often because of illness. These children also have a much higher rate of accidents than do other children, and they are twice as likely to have impaired vision and hearing, iron deficiency anemia, and higher than normal levels of lead in the blood, which can impair brain function.

So, the Jeubs advocate that low birth weight babies likely to grow into children with serious health problems, born into families without the resources to deal with those health problems are a good thing. We should have millions more. Right now.

Levels of stress in the family have also been shown to correlate with economic circumstances. Studies during economic recessions indicate that job loss and subsequent poverty are associated with violence in families, including child and elder abuse.

Seems like something else we'd want to avoid. Unless you're a Jeub, apparently.

It wasn't difficult for me to find this information, and what I quoted was just a drop in the bucket. I do agree with the Jeubs that not having the money for expensive toys or summer camps is hardly child abuse, but consistently not having money for food and clothing and heat is a problem. A problem that will not be solved by adding more children and smiling a lot. Although I suppose buying their book would help them with poverty at least.

Seriously, look at that picture above, borrowed from a great post on Bright Nepenthe. Really look at it. That's unrestrained breeding. That's having babies despite poverty, the sort of extreme poverty we don't really have in the US. Do you really think that, if given the option of controlling fertility, the mother of that child wouldn't have trampled your ass to get some birth control? Do you really think that, if confronted by the Jeubs' cheerful declaration that poverty is no big deal, she wouldn't smack them six times, and then a seventh for good measure? The Jeubs challenge us to "love another child". Look at that child and tell me that love alone is enough.

*They seem determined to prove their poor creds, but in this same article, they cite not being able to buy a van they want as evidence of their own poverty. Cry me a river, asshats.

The Problem with Patriarchy

quiverfull, patriarchy, christianity, feminism,
This admission from a Saudi woman about her doubts as to her own competency is heart wrenching, and exactly my problem with patriarchy and TLC's portrayal of the Duggars. (18 Bajillion Children and Counting.)

I would simply introduce myself as: A Saudi female, who aims for a better tomorrow.
In few weeks, I will be on my way to the United States of
America to pursue my post-graduate studies.Yes, I have traveled before to many
countries, including USA. And yes, I have traveled alone. Yet, I am scared!
Although I try to act excited and strong, but deep inside me, I am afraid.
“Living Alone” for five years, away from my family and friends is a new
experience, I knew it will happen one day, but I kept denying it.

Living in Saudi Arabia is nothing like anywhere else! Being surrounded
by all kind of walls that keeps you from being yourself and having your own
believes, principles, and thus, identity. In Saudi Arabia, your identity is
derived from your belonging to a certain family, social class, or “tribe”! Being
different is usually not accepted. However, there are always exceptions.

The new thing in the experience of living abroad is facing yourself with your
reality, there are no parents to guide you. There is no family, or a society
that you’d be thinking: “What would they say”. There is only You and
Yourself!

“Having to follow what is common in your community for your whole life
is easy, as you don’t have to think about what is Right or Wrong. You just need
to follow others. ” a friend of mine says. “Am afraid I won’t trust myself” she
adds. “I don’t know myself, I don’t know what do I really believe in, what do I
accept or refuse, what are my abilities, I don’t know the real (ME), all I know
is a life I am (used to living), and a person I became because I had to!, I had
no choice in being (this)” – Pointing to herself.

I am not afraid of this because I was never forced to do, believe in or
become someone, I chose to be “Me”. However, I am afraid to face the whole
world alone and have no one to rely on. I am spoiled – “Dad’s little girl!”. My
father, like many other Saudi men, likes to do everything for us, as he wants us
only to study and care for our future without worrying about anything else. I am
not sure if it was because he wants to, or because it would be hard for me to do
anything being a female. Even the procedures for earning my scholarship, I tried
to visit the female section at the Ministry of Higher Education, but because
they can’t do anything and they know nothing, I had to have my father go to the
men’s section. And to finish my papers at my work, I have to wait for the reply
of the men’s section, so it’s faster to let my father check with them directly,
and likewise goes everything else!

She is so brave and honest, and I wish her the best. She is a victim of patriarchy- a system that ensures that women never learn who they are, never learn to be competent, never learn to be self reliant. Now she is ill-prepared for a life in which her only measure will be herself, her failures and successes will be her own, and she will be expected to be her own person, separate and apart from her father. I admire her courage in even trying, because it's hard to succeed at life even if you were raised to do so.

So how do the Duggars relate to Saudi Woman's journey? The only difference between the lives of the Duggar's girls and the average Saudi woman is a burqa. The Quiverfull movement, which the Duggars are a part of no matter how TLC tries to whitewash the connection, treats its women and girls exactly the same way. They are controlled by men, in every way, from what they wear to when they wake up, from what they read to when they fuck. There is no moment of their lives not "surrendered" to their men. There is no moment of their lives to be themselves.

TLC paints them as a shiny, happy family. Apologizers bleat about "tolerance" for their "lifestyle". No one seems to consider the daughters, like Saudi Woman, raised to never know themselves, to doubt their competance, their very being. They had no choice at all.

If you want to know why I find the Duggars, and TLC's portrayal of them, so very dangerous, reread Saudi Woman's plea for her own independence. Follow Ruth, raised Quiverfull, as she painfully peels back the layers of her childhood indoctrination in order to find herself. Then look at every little girl you see and ask yourself do they not all deserve to be free?

No, It's Not Theft

feminism, feminist, tony, miano, comfort, misogyny, quiverfull,
For some reason, I've been stewing about this post from Ray Comfort's bff, Tony "The Lawman*" Miano. I don't know why I've been stewing about it. I have a blog. I can rant about it. So here we go.

Frankly, the whole post, wherein The Lawman explains his Quiverfullish plan for his daughter's vaginas lives, is rantworthy, but it's the following requirement for his daughters' husbands that caused all the stewing.

The man who marries my daughter must . . .

. . . receive my consent to marry my daughter. Otherwise, he is nothing more than a thief.

No, because you can't steal people. You don't own your daughters, The Lawman. You can't own people at all in this country. Haven't been able to for, oh, 150 years or so. Your adult daughter is welcome to do anything she'd like with her life, including marry a man you don't like. That does not make him a thief, or her a runaway slave.

See, The Lawman, women in this country, in this century, have all the same rights you do. I know, it's amazing. We can vote, own property, get jobs, marry whomever we wish (in 6 states, really marry whomever we wish), use birth control. Anything you can do, we can do, too.

And that includes making our own decisions in life.



*I always hear that as announced by the "let's get ready to rumble" guy.

Stockholm Surgery

evil, quiverfull, stockholm, patriarchy, misogyny, feminism, christianity,
Ah, the Quiverfull movement. As so lovingly propagandized by TLC, it's nothing more than the choice to have lots of kids and be really super niceynicenice all the time.

And then there's the reality of the Quiverfull movement: it's a patriarchy, and like all good patriarchies, it's built on the backs of the very women it oppresses. If every one of the women in the Quiverfull movement woke up one day and said, "Fuck this, my uterus, I'm doing what I want with it", the movement would be dead. It isn't the men who give power to the movement. They're not pushing out baby after baby after baby, risking their lives every time. They're not raising those children, homeschooling them, sewing their clothes, cooking their food and cleaning up after them. It's the women who, day after day, give power to the very movement that denies them power, even power over their own bodies.

Genevieve de Deugd (nee Smith) was "given in marriage" (she didn't get married, she was given, like a toaster) to Peter. Apparently, not thinking independently is harder than I would have thought.

This break was a wonderful thing and has allowed me to concentrate fully on my wifely role. And it has been a necessity and a delight to be able to dedicate all my time and energy to this—my priority. Being a daughter in my father’s home and helping him was predominantly an intellectual and sedentary lifestyle. Being a wife in my husband’s home and helping him involves a lot of manual work and is a very active lifestyle. I’ve had a lot to learn. And on top of this, have gone through a very interesting process: the process of leaving behind my father’s vision and taking onboard my husband’s vision.

Before I was married, much of who I was, what I believed and understood was wrapped up in my father’s vision. Since marrying I’ve undergone a surgery of sorts to replace Dad’s vision with Pete’s.

My loyalties had to undergo a change. I was used to thinking that Dad knew best. Now I needed to learn to think that Pete knows best. I used to do things and invest my time in projects according to what I knew Dad would want me to do. Now I needed to be guided by what Pete wanted me to do. When faced with a problem or an option I couldn’t think, “What would Dad have done in this situation?” Now I had to think, “What would Pete do in this situation?” These were exciting times and difficult as during this state of flux—learning to replace one man’s vision with another—the devil would come around and say, “But what about what you want? What about what you think?”

Poor thing. She had to go from anticipating the thoughts and needs of one man to anticipating the thoughts and needs of a completely different man. Not only that, the devil was causing her to wonder what she'd think, given the opportunity.

The devil.

If a woman thinks her own thoughts, has her own ideas, her own desires, that's evil. Evil, you know, like Hitler.

Quiverless

quiverfull, patriarcy, misogyny, religion, christian, feminism, feminist,
Please read the fascinating story of a woman who once led the Quiverfull movement, and has since left.

If you're feeling lazy, I think this paragraph sums up how the movement feels about the women who sacrifice so much to make it happen:

Garrison complied. She'd had her first three children by cesarean section, but after coming to the Quiverfull conviction, she was swayed by the movement's emphasis on natural (even unassisted home) birth. During one delivery, she suffered a partial uterine rupture and "felt like I'd been in a major battle with Satan, and he'd just about left me dead." The doctor who treated Garrison lectured her for an hour not to conceive again, but she felt that stopping on her own would be rebellion. When she turned to her leaders for inspiration, she received a bleak message: that if she died doing her maternal duty, God would care for her family. For six months, she couldn't look at the baby without crying.


I love a movement that puts men in no danger at all, why decrying the women who refuse to die for patriarchy.

Also visit Garrison's blog and offer her some atheist cookies.