I Don't Fear Death (Dying Perhaps, but Not Death)

I do not believe in an afterlife.

I have no way of knowing what happens after one dies, so I could be wrong, but I don't think anything happens after you die. I think you cease. Like going under for surgery, but without the waking up afterwards, disoriented and in pain.

I do not find this frightening. I find it impossible to imagine nothing, to be sure, but I can tell you this: there's nothing to be afraid of if I'm right. If we simply cease upon dying, you won't know the difference. You won't be capable of knowing of the difference, any more than a rock is.

The dying part, that might be bad. Depending upon what sort of dying we're talking about, I may very well be afraid of it. But being dead? Nope. Not at all.

What's really weird is that most atheists I know are like this. "Death? Meh, whatever." Whereas most Christians seem to view death the way I view a two-foot wide spider (There are no words). In fact, Christians demand more extreme end of life intervention than any other group in the US. Think about that for a second. Atheists think that death is an absolute cessation, but don't request resuscitation or extreme measures to hold off death. Christians think that death is just the beginning of a fantabulous, sparkle pony and rainbow dragon adventure, yet demand that no effort be spared in extending life for 5 extra minutes.

Anyway, I bring this up because Ray Comfort is yet again confusing "you" and "me". We really ought to buy this man a dictionary. (Boganette, is there some odd NZ usage of these words to explain his confusion?)

Never forget how you feared death before you became a Christian. The Bible says that until we come to Christ, we are "subject to the fear of death all of our lifetime." When we come to faith in Jesus Christ, God places a shield of faith in our hands so that we can combat the sharp and fiery arrows of fear. We can look death in the faith and say, "You no longer have any power over me!"

We can look death in the faith? Anyway, maybe people who became and/or are Christians are people that are deeply afraid of death. Atheists in general aren't. We're not sitting around thinking ZOMG!!1!DEATH!!1!!eleventy!!! We're more eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Hey, is that hummus?

Actually, according to Ray's beliefs, death has no power over anyone. If he's right, I don't cease to be when I die, I live forever, in hell. Nobody dies either way, it's more a matter of location.

He who lives without faith in God is open to fiery darts of terror that will pierce him to the core. I once saw a man like that as he lay on his deathbed. He was consumed with terror. It was a horrible thing to see, and my heart went out to him. He lived his life with his back turned to God, and consequently, when he needed faith most, he had none.

Again, I am not in a state of terror. Not about death, anyway. Spiders, absolutely*. (Seriously, look at this thing.) Death, no. And quite frankly, if I were dying and Ray Comfort were watching, "peaceful" wouldn't be any part of it. Never mind that the actual act of dying can be excruciating and filled with terrifying sensations, like pain and not being able to breathe, but then to have some religious huckster watching you as you go? Yikes.

So when you are sharing your faith, don't hesitate to tap into a powerful evangelistic tool that is often neglected--the sinner’s will to live. He doesn’t want to die. Don't be afraid to ask him if he is afraid of dying. It can often be a relief to talk about it, because the world avoids the question.

That's just wrong, if you ask me. It wouldn't sway me in the slightest, it's not theologically sound, and it has the same element of manipulation that see in half hour infomercials at 4am. You know the ones. The ones that prey upon the fear of illness, of unattractiveness of loneliness . . . oh. Got it.

*While looking for a picture of an enormous spider to link to, I came across the question Is it true you are never more than 6' from a spider at all times? I may never sleep again.

A Demon Called Schizophrenia

Are you schizophrenic? This man hates you. He also hates music. And gays. And Catholics. And atheists . . .

Ray Comfort has been writing an ongoing series on exorcism, specifically his exorcisms of people that were doubtless using drugs, experiencing seizures or mentally ill- without any effort to make sure these people visited medical professionals. (Who needs medical professionals when you've got Jesus?)

I've been ignoring this, though as a person who suffers from Simple Partial Seizures this series has enraged me to no end*. Please, please, please: if you or someone you love are experiencing any of the symptoms mentioned in Ray's posts, see a doctor. Right away. You or they could be in very big trouble and time may not be on your side. If you want to pray, pray. Just do it at the doctor's office, okay?

This passage, however, was the outside of enough:

Over the next few hours twelve spirits named themselves and came out of her. The first one to leave called itself "Joseph Smith." Jane apparently had contact with Mormonism, and had even been baptized by them. The other spirits named themselves as Mocking, Lying, Deceit, Schizophrenia, False Tongues, Music, Affliction, Soal, Marinda, Strength, and Lucifer (which I would think was a lying spirit). The two that had the greatest stronghold were Strength and Marinda. I commanded, "Marinda, what is your function -- what do you do?"

[emphasis mine]

Schizophrenia is not a demon. It is a disease. It is a disease that affects millions of people, people just like you and me. Those people are suffering from a disease exactly the same way a diabetic is suffering from a disease. Oddly enough, nobody ever feels ashamed to admit that their pancreas isn't working right, while schizophrenics are treated with fear and revulsion every day.

How dare you, Ray?

How fucking dare you?

*Because SPS can cause symptoms like abdominal pain and tachycardia, or just plain weird ass moods, it can be very difficult to get diagnosed. I suffered for a very long time and the treatment is simple: take some pills. They work great. I no longer have to deal with hallucinations. Why that took the better part of decade to work out, I don't know.

Ray Comfort Is Losing

1 in 8 adults in America is an exChristian, but movement in the other direction, from nonChristian to Christian as an adult, represents only 3% of the population. Which proves, at the very least, most people's suspicions that Ray isn't converting people to Christianity so much as he is moving people from one form of Christianity to another. That's like switching from liking Star Wars to Star Trek- you're still a geek like me.

According to the Christian research group, the most common reasons for leaving Christianity included life experiences, such as gaining new knowledge or education; feeling disillusioned with church and religion; feeling the church is hypocritical; having negative experiences in churches; being in disagreement with Christianity about specific issues such as homosexuality, abortion or birth control; feeling the church is too authoritarian; wanting to express their faith outside of church; and searching for a new faith or wanting to experience other religions.

That makes sense given the atheists I personally know, but what's interesting is that "life experiences" is the major motivation for switching to Christianity as well:

The top motivations for becoming a Christian, meanwhile, were going through difficult life events; getting older and seeing life differently; wanting to connect with a church and grow spiritually; discovering Christ; or wanting to know what was in the Bible.

I really can't see why you'd ever ask become Christian to find out what's in the Bible, most of them don't have the slightest clue. (See also: Left Behind, Rapture Ready, any Christian on TV)

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Books, Covers and When It's Polite to Point

What the hell was Lewis talking about, anyway?

For me, the expression "you can't judge a book by its cover" is especially amusing. My mother is the published author of over 35 romance novels. The names of the books and the cover art were a constant source of embarrassment and horror for my mother because while she had no control at all over those things*, she knew that people thought she did and judged her for it.

So, don't just a book or its author by the cover.

And don't take dog training advice from Ray Comfort or CS Lewis. (Dude, I loved Narnia, why you gotta play me like this?)

An ex-atheist [CS Lewis] once wrote, "You will have noticed that most dogs cannot understand pointing. You point to a bit of food on the floor; the dog, instead of looking at the floor, sniffs at your finger. A finger is a finger to him, and that is all. His world is all fact and no meaning. And in a period when factual realism is dominant we shall find people deliberately inducing upon themselves this doglike mind."

Actually, most dogs do understand pointing. They are, in fact, one of the few species other than humans to do so. It's possible Lewis' dog did not understanding pointing, but my dog does.

Also, how would anyone know if dogs engage in . . . "factual realism"? Dogs, while capable of understanding 300 or more words, lack the throat and jaw structures to speak as humans do, so we won't be talking to them anytime soon. And what's wrong with factual realism? Sure, my dog regularly bites his own tail, but he's never invaded the Holy Land because god told him so. We'd probably be a lot better off thinking as dogs do.

Seriously, facts and reality are bad? *sigh* That reminds me, you know what happens at the end of the Narnia saga? The preteen protagonists all die. Lewis considered that the best possible ending the story could have had. Yay! Children died! Isn't that great! O_o

How true are his words. Evolution believers dumb themselves down, believing that they are simply apes that have evolved a little more than their animal brethren. But man isn't slightly brighter than the animals. He outshines them in the area of arts, creativity, music, the preparation of his food, an appreciation of his being, the study of his history, language, speech, God, and in many other complex facets of life.

Food preparation? Humans are weenies when it comes to food. My dog doesn't need his meat cooked because his digestive tract is quite capable of eating raw meat, whereas I would likely die trying the same trick. But what about sauces and spice rubs makes us better than animals? Music? Sorry, birds and whales do that all day long. Art? Gorillas and elephants love art. Creativity? What does that even mean? What about birds and their nests or spiders and their webs? Are those beautiful creations not marks of creativity?

Ray, having recently been called out on his characterization of African natives as "savages", decides that it wasn't the hate that was the problem:

However, one area where he completely outshines the animal kingdom, is the area of law. No animal comes anywhere near man’s desire to see that justice is done. The most primitive of us (foul-mouthed white men with ugly tattoos and gaping holes in their ears) believes in retribution. Snatch his beer from his clasping hand, and it’s payback time. This is because those of us who are still sane are moral beings, made in the image of Him who is called "the Habitation of Justice."

Ray, Ray, Ray, Ray. I know you've been told a thousand times that a) vengeance is not justice, and b) humans are not the only animals capable of desiring justice. Monkeys and dogs both have a sense of fair play and demand justice.

Habitation of Justice? The same guy who recommends raping prisoners of war and killing babies? That guy?

Foul-mouthed white men with bad tattoos and gaping holes in their ears? So . . . you're pro tattoos as long as they are well executed? Foul-mouthed white women with bad tattoos and gaping holes in their ears are less "primitive"? I bet most of those people know dogs can understand pointing and monkeys are capable of justice. Unlike you, Ray.

*Editors chose the titles based upon their personal loathing for the authors as far as I could tell. The publishers would send over an "art fact sheet" for the author to fill out, including physical descriptions of the main characters, location of the story, era of the story, and then apparently shred the completed art fact sheet upon receiving it, because the covers never matched those descriptions at all. It was like some sort of bizarre metaKabuki.

And Jesus Said Unto Them: I Got Me an iPad, so STFU

Ray Comfort, who swears he's not running Living Waters for the money, had this to say today about science:

I am for progress in scientific education. I text, tweet, and blog. I have an iPod, and iPad, and an iPhone*. I live on the Internet, have a cool and very fast laptop, and love HD and 3D TV. Our TV program uses the latest technology and graphics, and I am always excited whenever something new comes out in the field of genuine science.

Ignoring that apparently the only "genuine" science out there is being done by Apple, does this look like the sort of list that should be compiled by a man who claims to speak for this guy:

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Maybe iPhones do not fall under the heading of "possessions"? Hypocrisy, thy name is Ray Comfort.

*Why would anyone need an iPhone and an iPod? The iPhone is an iPod with phone service.

My Kind

Being white, I've never been on the receiving end of a "your kind" or "you people" before I came out as an atheist. (Note: I am not saying that being an open atheist on the internet is in any way comparable to the experience of being a minority in the US, or in other countries.) It's rather jarring every time I come across it. Perhaps because for me, "you people" is not enough letters removed from words I can't even type, let alone say.

I came across "you people" directed at atheists on Ray Comfort's blog. (No matter how much Ray protests that he lurves all the little atheists, he doesn't mind letting through hateful comments about atheists, and someone at Atheist Central is heavily moderating those comments.)

Eddy Allen (of the unaccessible profile)

YES Ray that is true there are NO athiests in fox holes or death beds!! even monkey man Darwin gave up his foolish THEORY When he was faced with DEATH and as you said 10 out of 10 die and then no THEORY will save anybody!!

so dear athiests there you have it as Ray said there are no famous and respected of your foolish kind. and dont say Dawkins because he is NOT respected by me how can anyone believe we came from ALIENS! too much scifi channel and daydreaming there was no MAKER so he can sell foolish books to fools!!!

First of all, how could you possible know that there are no atheists in fox holes or death beds? Have you interviewed every active duty soldier and dying person in the entire world? That seems . . . unlikely. (Think of all the frequent flyer miles!)

Secondly, god doesn't save anyone from dying, so apparently he's no better than THEORIES. Supposedly, the wages of sin are death, but if I don't go to heaven, I'll be tortured forever in hell, which is still living forever. So, no death for anyone, ever.

Thirdly is the money quote: so dear athiests there you have it as Ray said there are no famous and respected of your foolish kind. Can I just say buy a fucking comma? Can I also just say that this is bizarre and unfounded and silly? Hitchens, Dawkins, PZ Myers, Eddie Izzard and Joss "the man himself" Whedon. Seriously, Joss Whedon. How much more famous or respected do you want than that? If you really want more, here you go.

Seriously, though the construction of that sentence makes me think of a time when black children in this country had few heroes, or when homosexuals had no one to point out as a famous and respected homosexual. Not because there weren't respectable people in both groups doing, or capable of doing, great things, but because the society they lived in either prevented them from achieving their potential, or prevented them from being honest about who they were. I've heard people say that President Obama is an atheist. He could be. I suspect he's probably agnostic, but we'll never know. You cannot become President of the United States as anything other than a Christian. So, politicians in this country are Christian whether they are or are not.

A lot of atheists hide. It doesn't mean we, my kind, aren't here.

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Not the Most Thoughtful of Gifts

I have a friend who received a spider monkey as a wedding present. (This was the 70s, if that explains anything for you.) The monkey liked to hang from the chandelier and drop down onto unsuspecting passersby in order to bite their ears. Not the most thoughtful of gifts.

Neither is the gift of life, if you follow evangelical thought. Ray Comfort is trying to sell people on the idea that life itself is a gift from god, but if you believe in hell, and just how easy and commonplace it is to end up spending eternity there, how can you regard life as a gift? Life is just a way to end up in hell. Don't read the bible the right way? Go directly to hell. Don't pray the right prayers? Go directly to hell. Were you raised in a culture that worships the wrong god? Go directly to hell. Just can't get over the contradictions and illogic of the bible? Too bad for you- go directly to hell.

Life is just a million ways to end up in hell. If god really loved us, he wouldn't let us live at all.

2/3 of a Person?

I don't know that Ray Comfort is not under one of those hoods.
bigotry, atheism, atheist, ray comfort, christianity, wtf

I know Ray Comfort isn't American by birth, but he's been here long enough to know that percentizing people is a tradition in this country*, but not one we're proud of. I can't quite understand exactly why Ray thinks it's okay to baldly state that atheists are 2/3 of a person.

If you are not conscious of the reality of God, it’s because you are only two thirds a person. You are made up of your body (the machine in which you live), your soul (the real you that lives within your body--your emotions, your will, consciousness, etc.), and spirit. Your spirit is your “God conscious” part, and that part of you is "dead in trespasses and sin" (see Ephesians 2:1). The plug is pulled, and so you have no light.

Ray, it's not okay to state that some human beings are less (33% less than Christians, but still 0.07% more than slaves!) than others. That kind of reasoning is offensive and dangerous. Hard as it is to believe, there are those that take you seriously, Ray. And you just told them that I am only 67% of a real person. Whenever people think they are more than others, that those others are intrinsically less, they feel free to do all kinds of things to the others. US history, which you should be familiar with by now, is rife with examples: the extermination of the Native Americans, the enslavement of blacks, and oppression of women are just a few examples.


Even you can go too far, Ray, and implying that the 3/5 Compromise was right, just applied to the wrong group, is going too damn far.



*For those not familiar with US history, prior to the US Civil War, slaves in the US were counted as 3/5 of a person for the purposes of enumeration for tax distribution and representation.

Lying Again - UPDATE

ray comfort, living waters, ambassadors academy
I swear the Bible has something to say about lying, but maybe I'm wrong, because Ray Comfort is lying again.

During the summer months, we have monthly training for people from around the world in something called the "Ambassador’s Academy." If you love the Lord and care about the lost (the unsaved), you may like to attend one of these. If you don’t love the Lord, get right with God, and then come to an Academy--we would love to meet you. It really is life-changing.

Note: Before you (atheists) accuse us of making money from these, please realize that we lose $300 for every person who attends. So why do we do it? We care about where you will spend eternity. No other reason.

If you've never heard the expression before, a "loss leader" is something a store sells for less than they paid for it in order to get you into the store, presuming that you will spend money on other items at the store, and they'll end up ahead. Stores do this because it works. They take a loss on one item because they gain on others.

The Ambassador's Academy is Ray's loss leader. How do I know this? Because he's not running in the red. From the Raytractors:

For 2006 Living Waters Publications sold 4.5 million dollars worth of merchandise that only cost the organization 1.9 million (a 137% markup). Living waters also took in $736,472 in donations. This gave the org a net revenue of 3.3 million to be added to the 1.4 million it had in the bank at the beginning of the year.

The expenditures for 2006 list fund raising receiving 1.2%, program services receiving 24.5%, and managerial and general receiving 74.1% of the 3 million spent. IMHO, if you are running a nonprofit and only 24% of your expenditures are going to the programs and services the org was created to address, and 74% are going to Managerial and General expenses, you're doin' it wrong.

. . .

Ray's compensation from living waters has increased as the org's monies have increased. In 2004, when the org had only $300 on the books, Ray took no money. This inclines me to believe that Ray also has other methods of income that are not affiliated with Living Waters. Book sales and speaking engagements perhaps? Can't say for sure, but I can speculate.In 2005, when LW took in 2.4 million, Ray's compensation jumped up to $50,000.

In 2006 Ray was compensated with $119,784.

. . .

Ray's DomicileRay lives in Bellflower, CA, a suburb of LA. By visiting LA's county assessor website I found out that Ray's house has been valued at a quarter of a million dollars. Additionally, I visited the LA Times real estate section and looked at some of the going rates for houses in his neighborhood. Even if he doesn't own the best house in town, he certainly lives in a nice neighborhood.

Yeah, Ray, it's all for the souls.

That is the from the Living Waters' 2007 tax return. As you can clearly see, Ray made $120,000 in 2007, amost 6 times what I make.