That's . . . Contradictory

These people have never heard of Jesus. Lucky them.

This question comes up a lot in Christian circles: If everyone has to accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior to get into Heaven, what about people who have never heard of Jesus or the Bible? Do they go to Hell? It doesn't seem fair at all.

Keep in mind, a tribe living in the jungles of Brazil has never had contact with the rest of the world. Therefore, logically, they have not had any opportunity to hear the gospel. None. Any attempt to share the gospels would be genocide as they, like the indigenous peoples of what is now the US, probably have no immunity to common viruses we all carry.

The answers to the question are hilarious, illogical and utterly contradictory to Matthew 28:19-20 a/k/a "The Great Commission:

¹⁹ Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ²⁰ and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Anyway, here we go, what happens to Brazilian indigenous tribespeople if they don't get hold of a Bible soon:

Answer: All people are accountable to God whether or not they have “heard about Him.” The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Really? Then why evangelize at all? Why all the pamphlets and websites and home visits and such?

The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). If it were not for God's grace, we would be given over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. He does this for those who continually reject Him (Romans 1:24-32).

Or, you know, sends them to hell.

In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature.

So, those indigenous persons who have had no contact with the outside world have heard of Jesus? How? I suspect the person who wrote this is simply unaware that there are people who have had no contact with the world. You know what I googled to get that link? "People who have had no contact with the outside world". It's 2011, figure out the internet already.

Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle—everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

Considering the eternal torment sure to follow, shouldn't god be the one all hot to find us? Also, if you are unaware that such a god exists, why would you be looking for him with all your heart and soul? That would be like a child from a famine stricken county desperately searching for a Williams & Sonoma catalog.

God is very clear in His Word that He reveals Himself to everyone, they just need to follow up on what they see in the creation, and what they feel in their conscience, as a result of His laws being implanted or written on their hearts. So often people will accuse God of being unjust due to so many people being in countries where the gospel isn't widely available. God is 'perfectly' just; because of this, our standard of justice is not as high as His. If fallen, sinful humans think they have a quarrel with God because of their perception of His supposed 'unfairness', they better think again. It just shows that they don't know Him.

lol wut? That's . . . nonsensical. Just wombat bicycle running tall book would. I'd fisk* it, but honestly, I have no idea what this person is trying to say.

Isn't it also amazing that unsaved or saved, at the Judgements, He deals with each person, every person that has ever been born in the whole of history, individually! It is amazing show of love to me, even as he must condemn, that he considers each person specifically when delivering His verdict. There will not be one person who has ever lived that will go into eternity without knowing precisely why the judgement was rendered.

Somehow, I don't think that's going to be much comfort to the people being tortured by demons for all eternity.

Imagine that! For all the unsaved, He could have just issued a blanket statement like "You didn't believe" and wave His hand and be done. But, no every person will still meet God face to face! I know it is a terrible thing for the unsaved, but it just reinforces His love to me, that even if you reject Him, even when He knows that the individual before Him must be condemned, He takes the time to personally judge each one. If He didn't love all humanity, I don't think He would do that. What an amazing Father we have!!!!!

See, now I would consider forgiveness to be evidence of love, but apparently I've been doing the love thing wrong all these years. Which makes me very concerned for this person's children, btw.

Well I will try to sum this up as best as I can:

Everybody is created with the knowledge of The Lord, which is embedded in them. Now whether or not people accept Him, is another issue all together. I personally don't agree with the 'But I didn't know any better' excuse.

Just like a 5 year old child who tells a lie, the child knew better, but did it anyway, hoping to feign ignorance. The child didn't have to be told 'It's wrong to lie' The child already knew that. His concious told him it was wrong.

Yes people are born with the knowledge that had been imparted with them, but too many people feign ignorance because they are happier being sinners, and don't want to have to be reminded of the consequences of sin.

And that's my take on the matter

Somebody doesn't have any experience with children. Children are not born knowing social rules. They are born with some knowledge of basic physics, but not with social rules. Until you tell a child it is wrong, children will bite, hit, lie and generally be obnoxious little animals. Never mind that small children have a very tenuous relationship with reality and have a hard time separating fact from fiction, and, until you have theory of mind figured out, lying isn't quite the same thing as it would be for an adult.

Well, naturally God wasn't saying that they would be born again, just by looking at the world of His creation around them; what He was saying is that in creation, there is an obvious creator. If they observe and ask, He will move toward them in manifesting Himself, and eventually, if they keep seeking and asking, He will reveal their need for a Savior Who is Jesus Christ. You'd be amazed at some of the missionary biographies and what they've reported regarding the work that God had already done in people's hearts prior to the missionary's arrival.

Oh, okay, so these indigenous persons are eventually going to walk into Sao Paolo requesting a Chick Tract, if you please.

Again, if everybody already knows about god and will eventually request the necessary salvation information from you, why bother evangelizing? It's all very confusing to me.

*I think I'm using that word correctly, but I'm not sure.

Heard on the Bus

Usually, the driver of the bus I take in to work is an Italian from New York City. You know the sort, thick accent, mustache, big close-knit family, traditional Italian name, eats only Italian food- and Catholic. Seriously, this guy could teach the Pope a thing or two about being Catholic.

At least three times a week, this fundamentalist woman spends the entire ride trying to save his soul. Italian driver takes this very well, "mm-hmm"ing in all the right places, deftly deflecting invitations to services and socials and generally giving Miss Manners a run for her money.

Today was different.

Maybe it was the ice raining from the sky. Maybe he'd finally had enough. Maybe it was just Monday.

Italian driver was talking to another passenger and the latest house fire came up. Turns out, that was Italian driver's sister's house. The house, and all their possessions, burned to the ground, and now she, her husband and their five children are living at Italian driver's house, with his wife and his four children.

Fundamentalist woman interrupts with, "Do you have a big house?"

Italian driver says, "I guess so, but it doesn't seem that way with seven extra people in it."

Fundamentalist woman replies, "Yes, but your house is big, right? There's room for everyone?"

Italian driver says, "Well, nobody's sleeping in the garage, if that's what you mean."

Fundamentalist woman says, in a tone of absolute triumph, "See, that's why God gave you such a big house! God is good!"

At this point, everyone on the bus is somewhere between bemused and befuddled, but Italian driver- who's had five extra children under ten in his house for a week- has had enough.

"You know what, lady? God didn't give me a big house. I worked for that house. I saved for years for that house, and then I moved from New York City to [redacted] just so I could have a bigger house and a yard for my kids. Nobody gave me anything!"

At this point, Fundamentalist woman tries to interrupt, but Italian driver is having none of it.

"And another thing- if God gave me a big house eight years ago just so I could cram my sister and her husband her kids into it after her house burned down, why didn't God just make sure her house didn't burn down? Seems like the long way around to give me a big house, doncha think?"

Well, yes, actually I do.

[edit: this was initially double posted. blogger is wonky this morning.]

Who Is This Jesus Fellow, Anyway?

On the one hand, I find Chick Tracts deeply disturbing because they are hateful beyond reason. I find that at local convenient stores and such all the time and feel the urge to wash my hands after handling them. (I throw them away because I do think of the children.)

On the other hand, Chick Tracts are hilarious. There is always that point in the story where the witnessee is all "Jesus- who's that?!" The only people in the US who would have that reaction to hearing about Jesus would be newborns or people who just got off a plane- from Mars.

So Michael Mock makes an excellent point* in his series on Christian evangelism:

Don't believe me? I recently got annoyed enough[3] to actually write out the reasons why I am not a Christian. They're... comprehensive. In order to bring me back into the fold, you would have to find a way to satisfactorily address everything in that post. That would require, among other things, some sort of epiphany - in the original sense of the word, where God reaches down and touches my thoughts - that seems to confirm not only God's existence, but Christianity as the best way of understanding Him. Can you provide all that? Now, every other former believer is going to have their own version of that list. It's not just a matter of offering a ground-up justification for Christian beliefs. You're going to have to start all the way down in the foundation, and work from there.

Does that sound like the sort of job where Sisyphus himself would watch you with a little gleam ofschadenfreude in his eyes?

I love a good Sisyphus reference.

I don't know why, but there is a certain segment of evangelical Christians who seem to think the only reason you aren't currently at church worshipping is because you simply don't know about this Jesus fellow, because if you had heard of Jesus once in your life, you'd automatically start worshipping him. To know him is to love him, to not love him is simply not to know him. There is literally no other reason one could have for not worshipping the Christian god (in exactly the way the witnessor does.)

In real life, I'm not very confrontational, so I generally deal with this in one of two ways, completely ignoring the earnest evangelist, or claiming to be of the faith already. The latter option can get a little dicey if they start asking questions about your church, etc., so I don't really recommend it. Sometimes, I thank them and then tell them they have convinced me to rejoin the Catholic Church. That's fun for the whole family!

Here's the thing, earnest evangelist, you know all those Way of the Master videos you see in which Ray Comfort, et al. claim to have converted atheists, et al.**? That's not true. Those people are not atheists. They belong to a certain subset of Christianity that is very common in the US, common because the US is a predominantly Christian country, in both numbers and culture. These people may not attend church or read the Bible, but they do accept that Christianity is the right way to go and that the Bible is the authoritative word of the Christian God, who is the correct god to worship. In fact, they don't consider any other god to be real, nor do they accept any other religion as being anything other than a confusing curiosity. This group may well be the largest group of Christians in the US.

It's not too hard to convince such a person that your particular interpretation of Christianity is true. You just need to be confident and insistent. Reference the Bible, they don't know what it says, but they do accept it as authoritative. Reference Hell, they believe in it. Reference Heaven, they want to go there. You can "convert" these people all day long. (Not that I think convincing one sort of Christian to be another sort of Christian is actually conversion.)

The problem is, Ray Comfort and his ilk sell this sort of evangelism and "conversion" as something it is not: effective against atheists, especially former believers who are now atheists. We've heard all your arguments, in fact, we probably made them at one point. We've read the Bible. I own 17 different Bibles and I've read every one of them cover to cover (well, not the Begats). I am intimately familiar with your holy book, I just don't think it's any holier than The Lord of the Rings. (And not nearly as well written.) I've also read the Q'ran and the Bhagavad Ghita, and I follow His Holiness the Dalai Lama on twitter (@DalaiLama). Quote the Bible at me and I'll quote it right it back, or ignore you. This isn't news to me.

That's really what it is. This is not news to me. Let me repeat myself: The Good News is not news to me. I have heard it before. Hearing the Good News did not convince me of anything the first 1,000 times I heard it, this time is not going to be different. Yes, yes, I know, I'm standing on the train tracks and the train is coming fast and ZOMG! Hell!!!1!!eleventy!!!

You know what? I am a competent, adult individual and that's a risk I have decided to take. I know, I'm scaring you and you would rather I did not take that risk, but I feel the same way about bungie jumping and sky diving. The big difference is you don't see me hanging out at airports and bridges screaming at people to stop exposing themselves to avoidable danger. I know the danger, okay? I have made an informed decision and continuing to inform me of the risk I have decided to take is completely unnecessary and really annoying.

So ask yourself something: have you, personally, ever been swayed by someone questioning your right to self determination in an annoying fashion? If not, why do you think that anyone else would be swayed by such a thing?

*Actually, MM almost always makes a good point in his posts.

**You would not believe how many legal documents I've typed in the last two days.

Liar Liar Pants on Fire*

Franklin Graham warns that the spirit of the anti-Christ is everywhere. Including his own mouth, it appears.

But preaching the Gospel may prove difficult, according to Graham, in a society where mentioning the name of Christ is prohibited.

That's not true at all. At all. Not even a little bit. You are more than welcome to talk about Jesus on your own time as much as you want. I checked to see if Graham was talking about China or Iran, but he's not. He's talking about the United States.

He goes on to say this:

Despite the opposition, Graham asked students to take advantage of the abundant opportunities forevangelism in today's era, especially through the Internet. He mentioned some options like purchasing key words like "God," "Jesus," or even "Muhammad."

Now wait a minute, Franky, are you completely prohibited from mentioning Jesus or are there "abundant" opportunities to do so? It's one or the other, but certainly not both, asshat.

Also, um, how does one purchase key words? If anyone knows, I would like "sloth", "pudding" and "gummy worms".

*I'm not sure if this rhyme is popular outside of the US, so for those who may not be familiar with it, the entire phrase is "Liar, liar, pants on fire, hang you by your nose from a telephone wire." No idea how that got started.

I Don't Fear Death (Dying Perhaps, but Not Death)

I do not believe in an afterlife.

I have no way of knowing what happens after one dies, so I could be wrong, but I don't think anything happens after you die. I think you cease. Like going under for surgery, but without the waking up afterwards, disoriented and in pain.

I do not find this frightening. I find it impossible to imagine nothing, to be sure, but I can tell you this: there's nothing to be afraid of if I'm right. If we simply cease upon dying, you won't know the difference. You won't be capable of knowing of the difference, any more than a rock is.

The dying part, that might be bad. Depending upon what sort of dying we're talking about, I may very well be afraid of it. But being dead? Nope. Not at all.

What's really weird is that most atheists I know are like this. "Death? Meh, whatever." Whereas most Christians seem to view death the way I view a two-foot wide spider (There are no words). In fact, Christians demand more extreme end of life intervention than any other group in the US. Think about that for a second. Atheists think that death is an absolute cessation, but don't request resuscitation or extreme measures to hold off death. Christians think that death is just the beginning of a fantabulous, sparkle pony and rainbow dragon adventure, yet demand that no effort be spared in extending life for 5 extra minutes.

Anyway, I bring this up because Ray Comfort is yet again confusing "you" and "me". We really ought to buy this man a dictionary. (Boganette, is there some odd NZ usage of these words to explain his confusion?)

Never forget how you feared death before you became a Christian. The Bible says that until we come to Christ, we are "subject to the fear of death all of our lifetime." When we come to faith in Jesus Christ, God places a shield of faith in our hands so that we can combat the sharp and fiery arrows of fear. We can look death in the faith and say, "You no longer have any power over me!"

We can look death in the faith? Anyway, maybe people who became and/or are Christians are people that are deeply afraid of death. Atheists in general aren't. We're not sitting around thinking ZOMG!!1!DEATH!!1!!eleventy!!! We're more eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Hey, is that hummus?

Actually, according to Ray's beliefs, death has no power over anyone. If he's right, I don't cease to be when I die, I live forever, in hell. Nobody dies either way, it's more a matter of location.

He who lives without faith in God is open to fiery darts of terror that will pierce him to the core. I once saw a man like that as he lay on his deathbed. He was consumed with terror. It was a horrible thing to see, and my heart went out to him. He lived his life with his back turned to God, and consequently, when he needed faith most, he had none.

Again, I am not in a state of terror. Not about death, anyway. Spiders, absolutely*. (Seriously, look at this thing.) Death, no. And quite frankly, if I were dying and Ray Comfort were watching, "peaceful" wouldn't be any part of it. Never mind that the actual act of dying can be excruciating and filled with terrifying sensations, like pain and not being able to breathe, but then to have some religious huckster watching you as you go? Yikes.

So when you are sharing your faith, don't hesitate to tap into a powerful evangelistic tool that is often neglected--the sinner’s will to live. He doesn’t want to die. Don't be afraid to ask him if he is afraid of dying. It can often be a relief to talk about it, because the world avoids the question.

That's just wrong, if you ask me. It wouldn't sway me in the slightest, it's not theologically sound, and it has the same element of manipulation that see in half hour infomercials at 4am. You know the ones. The ones that prey upon the fear of illness, of unattractiveness of loneliness . . . oh. Got it.

*While looking for a picture of an enormous spider to link to, I came across the question Is it true you are never more than 6' from a spider at all times? I may never sleep again.

41% of NonChristian AF Cadets Report Unwanted Proselytizing

Speaking of the First Amendment (aren't we always?):

An Air Force Academy survey found that 41 percent of cadets who who identified themselves as non-Christian said they were subjected to unwanted proselytizing at least once or twice last year.

Overall, 19 percent of all cadets said they were subjected to unwanted proselytizing.

That number should be zero, but things are looking up.

[Lt. Gen. Michael] Gould, who was not at the academy at the time of the 2004 survey, has made it a priority to improve religious tolerance, launching new programs and frequently reminding cadets, faculty and staff of the need to respect others' beliefs, or lack of beliefs.

In August, when he described the latest survey in general terms, Gould said the results showed fewer cadets felt pressured to participate in religious groups than in previous surveys.

The documents obtained by the AP appear to support that contention. They show that the percentage of Christians and non-Christians, including atheists, who felt pressure to get involved in religious activities declined, compared with a survey in 2007.

Huh. That's funny. The evangelical Christian Commander in Chief leaves office and religious pressure within the military eases. Imagine that.

Fun with Tracts (not tracks, that's a whole 'nother blog)

Let's have some fun with tracts, shall we?

The earth, the earth, the earth is on fire.

Basically, this tract is the really small print version of, "Did you see that movie? It had planes and floods and stuff and that guy who held a boombox over his head? See, I'm all hip and stuff and I believe in Jesus! Doesn't that make you want to believe in Jesus?

No. And that movie was hilariously bad, though I am very fond of John Cusack, and his sister, Joan. (She was not in that movie.)

"Hi. I'm death and I think I'm lost. I'm supposed to be on an album cover from 1986. Hey, is that guacamole?"



Death! It's scary, but very polite. And scary. Really scary. Believe in Jesus!

You wouldn't believe the options Adobe Photoshop contains! Look at this perspective thingy!

Sentence fragment. Unrelated thought. Something unrelated to evolution. Something explained by evolution. Look, I found a dictionary! The Bible! Believe in Jesus!

Other than providing people like me with amusement, what do you suppose the purpose of tracts are? I can't believe anyone is swayed by small print tripe like this.

No Matter How Many Times You Say It

It doesn't make it true. Yes, there are atheists in foxholes. They have a website, in fact. I would imagine that not all listed atheists are always in foxholes, but a certain percentage of them are at any given time.

MAAF maintains a roster of Atheists in Foxholes, just in case there are any rumors that we don't exist. The next time you hear someone repeat that old myth, just send them here to see how atheists have served honorably in combat - always have, always will.

Every time I see that line "there are no atheists in foxholes" I want to climb on down into the internet and emerge, Samara style, from the offender's monitor and force them to write "There are indeed atheists in foxholes" 1,000 times. Get writing, Larry Gatlin of The Audacity of Logic!

It's said that there are no atheists in fox holes. I would add... or in a coal mine if you are there for 69 days.

Allow me to explain group dynamics to you, Larry (may I call you Larry? Oh, good.) If I were trapped in a mine, I would try to avoid any divisive discussion. It's not like there's anywhere to go to get away from arguments. If I could not avoid the topic of religion, I would be noncommittal. Again, you can't get away from these people. If things get ugly, and discussions of religion frequently do, there's nowhere to go. I certainly wouldn't point out that god trapped us in the mine in the first place.

Anyway, if pressed with evangelization, I would "accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior". Quite frankly, trapped in a small place for that long, I'd agree to anything to avoid dissension. I'd agree my mother was a Martian and I'm the reincarnation of a small butterfly that lived for exactly one day in June of 1574. Who cares?

Anyway, I'm not sure what it proves that miners in Chile found a certain type of religion. It certainly doesn't speak to anything I would or would not do, or what any other person would or would not do. Chile is heavily Catholic, so in reality, one type of Christian became another type of Christian.

Yippee.

WOW Is About to Get That Much More Annoying

Dark elves apparently frequent Country & Western bars.

I played WOW* for about 5 minutes, and I spent that entire time dancing, but for the love of gaming, does absolutely everything have to be about evangelism? Honestly, just because you have no life and no other interests, doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

I am exploring creative ways to evangelize in the dark corners where few people tread with the Gospel.

One of those, is in the realm of MMORPG, specifically, World of Warcraft. I've started low-level characters on a couple of the RP (Role play) servers. Some of these are Priests, and so it's natural for them to talk like, well, Priests!! (I don't know why I didn't think of this before, it's working brilliantly!) I get to share the Gospel and I've had some positive responses!

OK so another avenue I want to exploit is the fact that World of Warcraft is going to be going through a huge change in November.... the game "world" is going to change drastically, and they call this game update "Cataclysm". Interesting, with everything going on in the real world, that this is being brought about in-game. Well, I'm not going to let this go to waste!!

Those of you who have seen The Princess Bride will remember the scene where Andre the Giant wears a Holocoaust Cloak and spooks the guards at the castle... he's muttering some sort of weird doom scenario... so I want to replicate that. I have a character with the perfect outfit (cloak and hood) and I want a script about the upcoming *real* Cataclysm, to tell about the truth of the Rapture... people will disappear.... tribulation is coming.... one world government, the AC, the MOTB, all of that stuff, and that there is still time to repent while it is today.

And The Princess Bride? Is nothing sacred?

Also, isn't it always today?

pic link

*World of Warcraft. It wasn't for me, but the dancing is awesome.

I Don't Know What to Make of This

I really don't understand at all. Probably because I don't speak English. And I'm a dog.

Reading this thread, I think I was making the same face my dog does when he's puzzled.

so I've been dropping tracts off around the building where I work even when I go to the washroom I leave a gospel tract there for someone to read. So I went in the washroom yesterday and noticed that the tract was gone and instead was a printed off paper supporting pantheism. It had a website that all the garbage came from and was seriously flawed in it's naturalistic worldview approach (if i can't see it it isn't there approach) the problem is I'm having a hard time finding an article that speaks directly about what is in the article. And was wondering should I type up something or throw the garbage away and leave a gospel tract again?

So let me get this straight. You leave fundy gospel tracts in the bathroom at work every day (doubtless forcing the janitor to do a little extra work), and you're all kinds of freaked out that someone left their point of view in the bathroom instead? You don't see that your tract is someone else's garbage? I guess not, huh?

I can't decide whether to laugh or bang my head against the desk until this makes sense.

My first instinct is to say I'd throw it away.

If I am given "literature" I thank them politely and put it in my bag, then throw it away.

Funny, that's my first instinct, too. Why do you think your "literature" is any different?

Not worthy of debate. Throw it away and keep leaving tracts around for people to find.

AND THROW AWAY. Because we feel exactly the same way about it as you do. Can we stop killing the trees and just quit it with the tracts?

Probably not.

A Demon Called Schizophrenia

Are you schizophrenic? This man hates you. He also hates music. And gays. And Catholics. And atheists . . .

Ray Comfort has been writing an ongoing series on exorcism, specifically his exorcisms of people that were doubtless using drugs, experiencing seizures or mentally ill- without any effort to make sure these people visited medical professionals. (Who needs medical professionals when you've got Jesus?)

I've been ignoring this, though as a person who suffers from Simple Partial Seizures this series has enraged me to no end*. Please, please, please: if you or someone you love are experiencing any of the symptoms mentioned in Ray's posts, see a doctor. Right away. You or they could be in very big trouble and time may not be on your side. If you want to pray, pray. Just do it at the doctor's office, okay?

This passage, however, was the outside of enough:

Over the next few hours twelve spirits named themselves and came out of her. The first one to leave called itself "Joseph Smith." Jane apparently had contact with Mormonism, and had even been baptized by them. The other spirits named themselves as Mocking, Lying, Deceit, Schizophrenia, False Tongues, Music, Affliction, Soal, Marinda, Strength, and Lucifer (which I would think was a lying spirit). The two that had the greatest stronghold were Strength and Marinda. I commanded, "Marinda, what is your function -- what do you do?"

[emphasis mine]

Schizophrenia is not a demon. It is a disease. It is a disease that affects millions of people, people just like you and me. Those people are suffering from a disease exactly the same way a diabetic is suffering from a disease. Oddly enough, nobody ever feels ashamed to admit that their pancreas isn't working right, while schizophrenics are treated with fear and revulsion every day.

How dare you, Ray?

How fucking dare you?

*Because SPS can cause symptoms like abdominal pain and tachycardia, or just plain weird ass moods, it can be very difficult to get diagnosed. I suffered for a very long time and the treatment is simple: take some pills. They work great. I no longer have to deal with hallucinations. Why that took the better part of decade to work out, I don't know.

The Truth Is Poorly Punctuated

Dear Unbeliever:

HOW CAN YOU KNOW JESUS REALLY IS GOD???

there have been many people who have claimed to be a god and many who claimed they were this or they were that but there Has ONLY BEEN ONE ...that has ever PROVED He was and Is GOD

and of course...That would be Jesus

Well, whatever else belief might do for you, it certainly doesn't improve grammar. Or clarify thought in any way. "there Has ONLY BEEN ONE" had me looking around for a guy with a sword and a poor imitation of a Scottish accent. Then I wept at the use of ellipses.

but let's start with this

hokay.

Ya

Really? "Ya" was so much easier to type than "you" that you just had to go with it? Gah!

get up in the middle of night...You walk into Your Living Room....there is brand new furniture ...Tv, love seat, couch, end tables, carpet, paint ...all stylishly set in place..way beyond your skills

Okay. So I'm totally freaked out right now. I get up, in the middle of the night, to discover that a roving band of decorators has broken into my home and redecorated my living room. (It's the Gay Agenda!) Yeah, I'm calling 911.

would it not be logical to ask "Who did this?" Did all that EVOLVE in the room?

*headdesk* No, it would not be logical to question evolution at this moment. It would be logical to a) change the locks and enjoy your new living room, or b) call the police.

So you start to inquire...Who Put this here?

Yes, I would wonder that. I might also wonder, "Can I get them back here to do the bedroom?"

And so should it be that each and every day as you wake up and see this world, the sunrise, the grass the trees ..the many many gazillion things that are lined up shouting to You that SOMEONE put all those things Here AND shouts for You to ask this following question

who Put You and I here?

Who taught you capitalization and grammar? That's what I would like to know. Then I want that person shipped to Gitmo for crimes against humanity.

If you honestly ask that question? It will lead to want to Know The Answer

Is nothing safe from your misunderstanding of simple punctuation?

Jesus came to this earth ...born of a virgin...lived a sinless life ....peformed many many documented miracles....and testified to all who would Listen that He was and Is and Is to come..that He is The Way, The Truth and the Life and said listen to this...to prove or authenticate my message to You Unbeliever and all the World...

Okay, "documented" does not mean what you think it means. If documentation does mean that, then I would like to use this opportunity to document that I spent the weekend raising the dead.

I will take the Sins of all mankind upon Me...You will kill me BUT three days later I will be Alive Again and He that Believes upon Me will NEVER Perish but live eternally

I'm assuming this is no longer the "writer" talking. This thing has more perspective shifts than a Twilight fanfic. (Still better than the real thing.)

And that's exactly what happened...2,000 years ago, Jesus Christ was Hung on a Cross for the Sins of the Whole World, It was a brutal event and one of great documentation, But NOT Only did Jesus Christ die, He did something ELSE...

Documentation does not mean that! Stop it!

While an armed guard stood watch over his gravesite...Jesus walked out of that guarded area three days later, JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD and that empty tomb shouts a message for the whole world to hear...JESUS IS LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF ALL KINGS AND HE IS YOUR CREATOR

I can has proof?

So there you have it Unbeliever...a very simple message..I could sit here and debate for hours but It all boils down to this....You are Alive!!! and Your life is a gift that was given to You by a Loving Creator...Who made you to wake up and ask "who put me Here? then through seeking to find the Answer You would realize that His Name is JESUS....all of Creation and an Empty Tomb Testify He is GOD"

No, you couldn't debate this for hours, unless by debate you mean "assault with bad grammar and punctuation."

Unbeliever, I pray you Hear these words and Believe them and I pray you take the next step....the Bible says If You believe in Your Heart that Jesus Christ died and then three days later rose from the Grave and You confess that Faith out loud to someone ..anyone ...You will be SAVED....WILL YOU????!"

No. No, I will not accept poorly punctuated and creatively capitalized assertions of fact as evidence of anything.

Good luck next time.

It Makes Me Feel Better

There is a very common argument for belief which can be distilled down to: it makes me feel better and don't you want to feel better, too? Or, more verbosely, but less cogently stated:

The Two Reasons to Believe

The person who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ because of the "scientific evidence", is deceiving themselves. Seemingly legitimate arguments of logic and science can be offered from both sides of the table. Science, of this sort, is just a trumped up excuse to maintain the worldview you started with. It bolsters and supports the egocentric. It's foolishness to argue with a made up mind. Why waste time?

Science that doesn't support your argument is a "trumped up excuse"? Yeah, you have no idea what science or how it works, do you? Why waste time, indeed. Oh, you're going to anyway, aren't you?

If [A] cogent argument is making one more defensive, then what is left?

uncogent arguments, i.e., nonsense?

One who does not believe needs to see something worth believing in. This person will want to see something that they will want for themselves.

No. I want to see proof. Proof is different. Although good luck with making Mr. Ilikeitwhenyoubashbabies'skullsin something I might want.

Seeing the difference Christ makes, in the the lives of a believers, is one reason to believe that He can make a difference in yours.

Look, I've seen people made happy and content by Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Cold Play. (Really, Cold Play.) This does not inspire me to believe in your version of Christianity. This is proof of the fact that some people need something, anything, to believe in and whatever they latch onto first will do.

The active, miraculous love shining out of a believer will make you wonder.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yes, I shall know you by your love: of hating homosexuals and women and muslims and Hispanics and poor children. It's all clear now. I must worship the god of active, miraculous, hateful love!

Seeing the peace and just plain sanity with which a true christian faces the most challenging of circumstances can persuade the most sceptical.

Ahem. "Skeptical". And no, it doesn't. Christians face foreclosure, death, divorce, illness, etc. with exactly the same fortitude as anyone else. And, if fortitude in the face of adversity is a reason to convert, I suggest you check out Christopher Hitchens' most recent interview- and become an atheist.

A believer always has something awesome to look forward to, that hope that cannot die! Opiate of the people, indeed!

I don't think you know what "opiate of the masses" meant, and I hope someday to ride a pink unicorn, that's no reason to believe unicorns are real.

The other reason to believe, and the best one, is that you get to know Jesus Christ! Remember, this is the One that was sent to show us what God is like! This is the One who gave up everything, including His life, just to have us with Him! In tenderness, He holds us, comforts us, and sustains us! Obedience to His every word is a joy, because He holds only our highest interests in His heart! With Him with us, we need fear nothing! Is it any wonder that praising Him is our greatest honor? That rejoicing in Him is something we'll gladly do, forever?

Yeah! I get to hang out with your imaginary friend! Who really isn't the most interesting imaginary friend available to me. I've always felt Odin was more interesting than Jesus, and then there's Prometheus or Shiva. An evening with Loki sounds both dangerous and exciting.

Anyone who has not trusted Jesus is missing out on anything and everything worthwhile and worth having.

Like what? Your boring imaginary friend or your hateful love?

Christianity can be proven, but no one should believe only because of the cold, hard facts.

If you had proof, or facts of the cold and hard persuasion, why didn't you give me those?

That is only a part of it! Convicting is done by the convincing of the heart! Who wouldn't want to be a part of the best possible outcome?

No one, but you haven't proven it, so I'm going to go call Loki and see if he wants to go clubbing with me and Shiva. (There's dancing- and death!)

Dude, I Can See China from that Hole You're Diggin'!

Tony Miano attempts to answer a question about god's will, Calvinism, grace and salvation and ended up digging himself into a hole. Keep in mind that (a) Tony spends most of his time on street corners shouting about salvation, and (b) according to Tony, hell is real, people go there, and those people spend eternity being tortured. Eternity. Being tortured. And (c), people go to hell for not believing properly in Jesus.

Here's the question:

I have a question about this statement:

"God is sovereign. If it is God's will that someone be saved, they will be saved regardless of what I do or don't do."

From what I gather from your blog, you don't seem to be a Calvinist. But yet this statement, along with how you teach/preach, seems to be contradictory. I say that because you tell everyone to repent of their sin, turn to Jesus and accept him as their Savior. Now, one may see that statement and say, 'Why should I repent and turn to Jesus if it's not God's will that I be saved?'

I'm not trying to call you out or call label you a liar or anything, I'm just looking at this from an outsider's perspective.

Actually, the real question is, HOW could you repent and receive salvation if an OMNIPOTENT god doesn't want you to. Really, how?

I believe that Salvation is of the Lord (Psalm 3:8).

I believe that no one will repent and believe the gospel unless God draws the person to Himself (John 6:44), causing the person to be born again (1 Peter 1:3).

I believe an unregenerate person is utterly incapable by an act of his or her own will to choose Christ (John 1:12-13). The reason is prior to God's regenerative work; a person is dead in his or her sins (Ephesians 2:1-3). And no dead person can do anything to bring himself or herself back to life.

Okay, so Calvinism. That's an excellent definition of what Calvinism is. God provides salvation, no one can be saved unless god wants them to. The real question that arises with Calvinism isn't the mechanics of salvation, it's the ethics of salvation, the morality of god, if you will.

I am god. I make two places for the humans I created to go after they die, heaven and hell. Both places are these humans' home for eternity. Forever. Infinity. A really, really, really long time. Heaven's pleasant enough, hell is torture. Unending torture for all eternity. Forever. Infinity. A really, really, really long time. So, I'm sociopathic enough to create hell and to send humans to hell, but eventually I kinda feel bad about it and create a way for humans to avoid hell: salvation. I sacrifice myself to myself to change the rule I made and voila! salvation.

But I have to individually decide which humans will receive salvation and which will not. And those humans that I have decided do not deserve salvation go to hell. And get tortured. Forever. Infinity. A really, really, really long time. If I do decide not to save a human, no matter how much they want to be saved, it doesn't matter. They're going to hell.

This might almost be ethical, if I only saved nice people, people who helped other people, people who were generally good, but I don't. Plenty of really nice people are atheists, doomed to suffer for all eternity, while plenty of truly horrible people are saved. See also: Son of Sam.

This is entirely unethical, completely immoral and downright depraved. God isn't dead, he's insane. And love. Insane, cruel, depraved love. Yeah, let me get right on worshipping that. Oh, wait, he doesn't want me to, so I can't.

All right then, carry on.

And Tony's on a streetcorner right now, trying to convince people to change god's mind about their salvation? There is literally no sense to be found in the intersection of what Tony claims to believe and what Tony actually does.