atheism, atheist, witness, witnessing, evangelical, evangelism, religion, christian, christianity, jesus, jebus, god, convert, conversion, testimony
Today I learned how to witness to atheists. I also learned that I must not be an atheist, because they sure weren't talking about me, or anyone else I know. (You simply must click on the link. The picture of Andy the Atheist is priceless. Apparently, atheists are always high. I'd also like to know where to get that shirt.)
Andy the Atheist
Basic Description
Atheism is defined as "not having a 'god belief'." try "lacking a belief in gods or deities or supreme beings". "god belief" is a really weird phrase. This is important to remember, because it's not that an atheist doesn't believe in god, because that statement opens the possibility that god or a supreme being exists. no, doesn't believe in god pretty much covers it, and does not "open the possibility" that god exists. if i say that i don't believe in tiny pink unicorns, am i opening the possibility that tiny pink unicorns exist? The atheist's worldview is driven by pure rationality, reason, and the scientific method. we're vulcans? that's a new one. The result of this is that most atheists hold the theory of evolution to be true, BECAUSE IT IS and they reject the possibility of the spiritual world and an afterlife. Most surveys show that around 15% of Americans call themselves atheist. That's actually (yes, I overuse "actually". I've come to terms with it.) not true. This figure comes from a survey, in which atheists are lumped together with agnostics and the "unaffiliated". More accurate surveys put atheism at between 2 and 5% of the population.
What Andy Believes
About Atheism:
Andy believes that atheism is the most rational and reasonable worldview, something insulting is sure to follow sometimes because of the 'damage' done by religion throughout the centuries meh, but mainly because it seems to be the most consistent with the observable world according to the scientific method. that "according to the scientific method" is freaking me out. ummm . . . what other way is there to interact with the observable world? what other world is there? oh . . . . yeah.
About God:
Andy lacks a 'god belief'. see above
About the Trinity:
Since Andy lacks a 'god belief', the concept of the Trinity is totally irrelevant. true, but you know why christians are so into the trinity? because it resolves that tiny problem of god speaking in the plural on occasion. I think Occam's Razor applies, but whatever.
Genesis 3:22 (KJV): And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
About Jesus:
Andy believes Jesus was either just an ordinary person, or never existed at all. He will oftentimes refer to the 'Jesus-Myth', i have never heard an atheist refer to the "jesus myth". is this a dawkins thing? or when he is being really sarcastic, refers to 'Jebus' (a sarcastic reference to Christ). I think this originated with the Simpsons.
About the Bible:
Andy believes the Bible is a collection of myths, half-truths, and lies designed to lead ignorant people astray and give power to religious leaders over the masses.
it is the placebo of the masses, after all.
About the Afterlife:
Andy does not believe in an afterlife. live now, this isn't prep for a final exam, people.
About Salvation:
In Andy's mind, there is no need for salvation from sin and hell. He doesn't believe in sin, and he doesn't believe in hell, so why does anyone need to be 'saved'? this is an odd interpretation of atheism, because it implies that atheists don't find anything morally repugnant or ethically wrong. i don't use the word "sin", but i don't find lying, stealing and murdering to be acceptable, either.
the next section is entitled: What the Bible Teaches. I'm not going to bother with it, because I find what the bible teaches to be irrelevant.
Things to Remember
The first thing you need to ask an atheist is "do you really seek to discover the truth - even if it costs you your reputation, and even your friends?" BWAHAHAHAHAHA! I love the implication that the only reason I'm not on my knees praying to the lord right now is that they'll take away my scarlet A if I do. If the answer is no, then realize that he/she is not willing to go where the evidence leads .; you won't be having an honest intellectual dialogue, so, if they aren't willing to convert to your brand of christianity, they're ignoring the evidence and are intellectually dishonest. way to frame the argument but your conversation may still have a spiritual impact. it's called "planting the seed".
Don't talk about sin with an atheist. In their worldview, morality is generally dependent on the situation and neutral, so there is no reference point in their minds for a concept of breaking God's universal laws. we're hopelessly sinful. we can't even understand why murder is unacceptable. and we lie a lot, too. i'm lying right now!
Don't get dragged into arguments about what God did or didn't do. it's so obnoxious when atheists bring up god punishing innocent women and children, or forcing Pharoah to continue the plagues against his will. kinda hard to talk about a "just god" after that. Focus on the evidence that Christ existed, died on the cross, and came back from the dead. what evidence? i'll grant you that the story of Yeshua is certainly based on a real person, but i have seen no evidence outside of the bible of anything else. As well, your personal testimony can be a powerful tool, because it's very difficult to 'disprove' the real and lasting change that Christ has brought to your life. actually, it's unnecessary to disprove real and lasting changes in another person's life. i am totally willing to concede that someone's belief changed them. that does not prove that what they believe is objectively real, only that it's real to them.
Bottom line with an atheist (or anyone else for that matter we're just like people!) - you cannot argue someone to faith in Christ isn't that my line?, but you can (and should) live such a Christlike life that those around you sense something different, which opens the door for you to explain the 'evidence'. if that makes fundys nicer people to be around, i am all about that. please, do so.
Showing posts with label convert. Show all posts
Showing posts with label convert. Show all posts
Thursday, February 19, 2009
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
Converting Children
evangelical, evangelism, evangelist, religion, religious, witness, christian, christianity, conversion, convert, children
I found this comment on the Rapture Ready message boards more than a little disturbing.
This could shut down Child Evangelism Fellowship Good News Clubs that are on so many elementary school campuses across the country. There are many of us that spend time on those campuses and give kids the gospel every week. We have seen so many children come to Christ! Just in the area where I live, we have seen so many professions of faith this year. Because these clubs are sponsored by churches, many of these kids become regular attenders at local churches and bring their parents with them. It has been a wonderful evangelism tool through the years. Before the law was passed to allow them into the schools, we used to have them in various homes in the community. Don't think we won't go back to that method if we have to!
Think about that for a second. You send your child to a public school. It doesn't really matter what religion you are or aren't, do you want someone converting your children without your permission?
Messing with someone else's children is beyond low, and I imagine the same Child Evangelism Fellowship's Good News Clubs' members would be enraged if I did that to their children. Social boundaries alone should inspire people to kick these idiots out of elementary schools. Elementary schools! I could get first grader to believe anything, absolutely anything. That's . . . I'm speechless with anger. Wow.
More on this later.
I found this comment on the Rapture Ready message boards more than a little disturbing.
This could shut down Child Evangelism Fellowship Good News Clubs that are on so many elementary school campuses across the country. There are many of us that spend time on those campuses and give kids the gospel every week. We have seen so many children come to Christ! Just in the area where I live, we have seen so many professions of faith this year. Because these clubs are sponsored by churches, many of these kids become regular attenders at local churches and bring their parents with them. It has been a wonderful evangelism tool through the years. Before the law was passed to allow them into the schools, we used to have them in various homes in the community. Don't think we won't go back to that method if we have to!
Think about that for a second. You send your child to a public school. It doesn't really matter what religion you are or aren't, do you want someone converting your children without your permission?
Messing with someone else's children is beyond low, and I imagine the same Child Evangelism Fellowship's Good News Clubs' members would be enraged if I did that to their children. Social boundaries alone should inspire people to kick these idiots out of elementary schools. Elementary schools! I could get first grader to believe anything, absolutely anything. That's . . . I'm speechless with anger. Wow.
Thursday, February 5, 2009
Immoral Atheist Elitists
conversion, convert, fail, religion, religious, god, jesus, bible, fundamentalism, fundamentalist, fundy, creation, creation, atheism, atheist, atheophobia,
I'm starting to think that maybe I've been doing this for a little too long. I was actually happy to find the below article. Honestly, when will people learn?
There Is a God
In the world today there exists a class of people who call themselves atheists. no, There are atheists. We don't say "In the word today there exists a class of people who call themselves Christians," do we? I can't decide if that is just really bad writing, or some sort of slam on atheists. "They're not really atheists, they just call themselves atheists" or something. These individuals believe that there is no God. no, we don't believe in god. one is actively disbelieving, one is simply disbelief. bad writing or conspiracy? While not all atheists are the same in their reasoning, how nice of you to notice! they all confidently assert that God does not exist. actually, i confidently assert that I have not seen any proof of god, but, if i did, i would believe. i'm not being willfully stupid over here. Consider the three major types of atheists that's odd, atheists don't refer to three different kinds of atheists:
1. The intellectual atheist. because knowing things and thinking is bad! elitists! This person honestly feels that there is a lack of sufficient evidence to demonstrate God's existence. so true. The intellectual atheist claims that he cannot put faith in anything that he himself cannot see, feel, nor touch with his physical senses. claims? we have to take people on their word with this sort of thing. besides that, um, faith? the "intellectual atheist" probably has a large enough vocabulary to understand what "faith" means. if you can see, feel, touch, taste or hear something, faith is not necessary. duh. (This, of course, is not a valid argument, for there are many things we all take by faith that we haven't seen for ourselves. and let rip with a totally specious argument For example, most people believe that asteroids exist, even though they may have never seen one except that you can show me pictures of asteroids, you can show me asteroids that have hit the earth, i could go to a telescope and see one myself. i accept that australia exists not because i've ever been there, but because lots of other people have.). Hence, the intellectual atheist uses many arguments of reason and logic to defend his position. yes, intellectual elitists are known for their reason and logic.
Most intellectual atheists, however, have never really examined the evidence that demonstrates God's existence. yes, we have. over and over and over again. probably more than you. sorry. Since many of them are open to reason yes, intellectuals are indeed open to reason, most intellectual atheists reject their atheistic position upon hearing the evidence which supports that there is a God. and what, pray tell, is this amazing evidence that automatically converts intellectual atheists? if it's that good, why not bring it up here and convert unsuspecting atheists on the spot?
2. The immoral atheist. didn't i just do a post on this? oh, yes. here we are. atheists and christians act exactly the same. neat. This person denies God's existence because he loves his sin. find me this person. i've never met one, and i am an atheist. He is basically a selfish individual, and delights in practices that offend God's law why, yes, i do quite often eat shrimp, wear clothes made of two different fabrics and sit in chairs that menstruating women have sat upon. just to piss of a deity i don't believe exists. The immoral atheist rejects the notion that God exists so as to make himself feel that he is not accountable to anyone for his actions. that wouldn't make him an atheist, that would make him a person with serious issues. His moral state prevents him from acknowledging God's existence. sure. He surmises that if God exists, then he will be accountable and will have to face judgment for his unrighteous deeds. uh huh This person can be likened unto a criminal. likened unto? was this written in 1625? A criminal would like to believe that law enforcers do not exist. a smart criminal, on the other hand, would learn as much about those "enforcers" as possible, in order to avoid being caught. In like manner, the immoral atheist would like for God not to exist. i'd like for malaria not to exist, does thinking it away actually work? This, then, is the underlying reason for his belief. or lack thereof. So in order to appease his conscience and disregard the fear of judgment, the immoral atheist persuades himself that there is no God. that's just silly.
3. The emotional atheist. Probably most atheists today are of this type. really. because i doubt the writer of this has ever once interacted with an atheist, much less a lot of atheists. Unlike the intellectual and immoral atheist, the emotional atheist does not reject God's existence because of reason, nor because he loves sin. Instead, the emotional atheist denies God's existence because all he has experienced in his life has been pain, sorrow, and heart-break. the bad-daddy theory of atheism. very few people turn to atheism after heart break. in fact, most people turn to religion after heart break. i actually do interact with other atheists on a regular basis, and i don't know anyone who went from christian to atheist after a tragedy. sometimes, the tragedy is the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, but not the only factor, or even the most important one. This person cannot see any sense nor purpose in life; atheists do have a purpose in life- to live it. as fully as possible, as long as possible. it all makes no sense to him. yeah, we're just walking around broken, looking for a new, not-so-bad-daddy. the sky-daddy! He has never experienced true love and concern from others. stop that. we have all experienced true love and concern from others, at least once. atheists are not psychopaths. Hence, he can only conclude that if there was a God, life would not be so painful. yeesh. Out of all of the different types of atheists, the emotional atheist is most open to see the truth that God exists. good luck with that. For once he sees the love of God and experiences it, he abandons his atheism. the love that allows terrible things to happen to innocent people, or the love that condemns people to an eternity in hell for no reason. remember, to the writer of this article, a child molester who accepted jesus in in heaven, but ghandi is burning in hell. that's love.
now we will be subjected to poorly reasoned "proofs" of yhwh:
In examining the evidence for God, it is interesting to note that the Bible never seeks to prove His existence. what?! Rather, the Bible assumes God's existence from the very start and affirms that God's existence is an unshakable fact that need not be explained. so do the harry potter novels, the lord of the rings series and the wheel of time series. so what? According to the Bible verses cited at the beginning of this article, God has given man sufficient evidence to believe in Him. and i should trust this book over a harry potter book because? For this reason, the Bible simply states that atheism is foolish (Psalms 14:1). wow, a book about a religion that states that other beliefs are foolish? that's amazing! you've convinced me! conversion fail. The foolishness of atheism is exposed when we consider how utterly small, finite, and limited man is in this universe. what? according to asshats like these, the entire universe was made just for man, and you think this proves your position how?
When a person claims that he absolutely knows that God does not exist, he is essentially saying, in effect, that he has all knowledge and all power. i've dealt with this before. I haven't met any atheists who claim that they absolutely know that god does not exist. we say that, given what we've seen so far, we do not believe in god. if something changes, we'll reevaluate. This may sound strange at first, but let us discuss it for a moment. Consider how you, as a mere human being, compare with all that is around you. You are one person on planet earth where 6 billion other people, like yourself, reside. Have you been to all parts of this planet to seek out and search whether or not God exists? Have you been to every continent, every country, every state, province and city? Have you explored every ocean, sea, river, and lake? Taking it a step further, although planet earth is incredibly large, the sun is far larger. If the sun could be excavated, you could fit hundreds of thousands of earths inside of it! And the sun is only one medium sized star among millions of other stars in the universe. In fact, some stars are over 500 times larger than the sun! Furthermore, there are literally hundreds of millions of other solar systems besides ours! Is this not breathtaking to consider? Have you been to all of them to seek and to search God out? no, i don't have that kind of time on my hands, but, conversion fail.
Concerning the size of the universe, astronomers tell us that some stars are so far from us that the light from them has been traveling for thousands of years, and it still hasn't reached the earth yet! Finally, we live in the dimension of space and time; can you be absolutely certain that there is not another dimension beyond time and space wherein God may exist? If a dimension outside of time exists, which is quite likely, have you investigated it through and through to see if God is there? In sum, are you, as a mere mortal who has not even walked through the whole earth, qualified to declare that God does not exist? Are you, who stand under 7 feet and only take up several inches of ground in this enormous universe, competent to say that God does not exist? let me say it again: we say that, given what we've seen so far, we do not believe in god. if something changes, we'll reevaluate. conversion fail. (ray comfort is fond of this type of "logic", too.)
Perhaps by now you have seen my point. i saw it 3 paragraphs ago. Since you and I are so utterly small, restricted, and limited in our knowledge, being, and power compared to the breath-taking vastness and enormity of the universe, it is utter arrogance and nonsense for any of us to declare with confidence that God does not exist. i can, however, say with confidence that i have seen no proof thereof.
Man is incompetent to make such a judgment. so, i have to belief, whether i do or not? will we be moving on to Pascal's Wager next? By doing so, he is basically saying, in effect, that he himself is God! logic fail. A = B, therefore C = Q? In other words, to state that God does not exist is to indicate that we have all-knowledge and all-power, that we have investigated every corner and curve of the universe, and that as a consequence, we can be sure that God does not exist. How can you or I, who cannot explain how our hearts beat, or if it will rain tomorrow, or what will happen to us next year, dare say that God does not exist? If you cannot know such simple things, what makes you an authority on the question of God's existence? Therefore, the position of atheism, when carefully examined, is truly foolish and presumptuous. beating a dead horse may or may not be useful, but i can you that beating a dead conversion attempt is just annoying.
Let us briefly consider just a few facts that evidence God's existence finally!
1. The complexity, order, sophistication, and intricate design of the universe, ecosystem, and all biological and botanical life attest to an intelligent Creator, which is God at what point does complexity, order, sophistication and intricacy demand a creator? who's to say that we are just not quote complex or intricate enough to demand a creator? who's to say that a creator is necessary for this? no one.(Romans 1:19,20, Psalms 19:1, 139:14-17).
i separated these two sections because they are different ideas. the first one is the argument of complexity, the second is otherwise stated as "creation proves the creator proves the creation proves the creator"
There are only three alternatives to explain the origin of the universe: 1) it always existed, 2) it was created by chance, or 3) it was created by God. It is utterly inconceivable to believe that the universe and all it contains could exist apart from a Supreme Designer. The universe could not have always existed, for it is expanding and contracting. This suggests that it came into existence at a certain point in time. Furthermore, the universe could not have been created by chance for it is too orderly and complex. It is a basic principle that the things that chance creates are always unorganized, irregular, inconsistent, and partially integrated. Moreover, whatever chance creates, it almost instantaneously destroys.
For example, if I continue to throw a chair up in the air, by chance, the chair will eventually fall to the ground on its four legs. However, the next time I throw it up, it will land once again on its back or side. Consider another example. Suppose we put a monkey at a typewriter. If a monkey stays at a typewriter long enough, he may eventually produce a coherent sentence (maybe after a few hundred years of typing). However, with the next few strokes that the monkey makes after completing this coherent sentence, he will have made the sentence incoherent through his arbitrary typing. Hence, whatever organization chance can create, it almost instantaneously destroys by the same mechanism that it utilized to produce the organization. It is inconceivable, then, to believe that chance could create anything complex and sophisticated, whether it be a watch, a car, or a computer. All of these things require a designer. Therefore, the consistency, organization, symmetry, form, and purposefulness of the universe speaks very strongly to God's existence.
actually, Steven J's response to a typical Ray Comfort post explains this very well. (Ray's a heck of a moron, but readings responses to Ray's inanity is about as good as a graduate level course in science, and free!
2. A natural and inborn desire for God in the heart of man attests to His existence. we also have natural inborn desires for sex, society, music and art. what does that prove?Virtually every religion in the world affirms a Creator. so Hinduism is as valid as Christianity is as valid as Shintoism is as valid as Islam? really? I don't think this guy meant to say that. There is no culture on planet earth that does not have a religion as a part of its tradition. so? most cultures include a tradition of slavery, misogyny and child abuse. should we bring those back, too? The belief in a Divine Person, then, is universal this is an appeal to popularity: it really doesn't matter how many people believe in a thing, that doesn't make it true.; it can be found in all cultures, nations, and tribes. Desire always implies and indicates the existence of an object in the world. or the existence of an idea. "freedom" is not an object, yet people desire it. the desire for a sky-daddy to make it all better does not prove the existence of a sky-daddy. If a person desires something, it affirms that the object desired exists. If, for example, I desire a car, a family, a house, or a particular job, then my desire for these objects demonstrates their existence. Moreover, orphans, by nature, desire parental love, even though they may have never seen their real parents. All orphans have this irresistible yearning. Hence, every desire of the heart arises out of an existing and real object.
Seeing that people in all cultures have a capacity and a desire to believe in, to know, and to fellowship with God, then God must exist. The explanation for this, of course, is that God created man with a capacity to know Him and to fellowship with Him. Interestingly, the Bible teaches exactly that, thus confirming human experience. wow, writers in the bible noticed the same thing about people that this guy did. must be divinely inspired. conversion fail.
3. The multitudes of answered prayers confirm God's existence. do the multitudes of unanswered prayers disprove god's existence? seriously, this is just silly. you cannot prove to me that god answered any prayers. think about it. your mother is in the hospital, desperately ill. one of three things is going to happen: (1) she will die, (2) she will get better, (3) she will stay the same. if you pray to god and she gets better, that's something that would have happened anyway. All who have known God throughout the span of time, know that He exists by His response to their prayers and the specific guidance that He affords them in life. Neither coincidence nor chance can possibly account for the thousands upon thousands of answered prayers that servants of God in the past and present have received. prove it. you can't. Although atheists try to dismiss and brush aside all of the answers to prayers that people throughout the centuries have reported, so, some guy said something happened, that he can't prove happened and couldn't be duplicated even if we do believe it happened? wow, sign me up for some jesus! can any one of them prove that such reports are not genuine? if you assert a thing, it is up to you to prove it to be true. it's not my responsibility to disprove it. that's how logical argumentation works. Time and space would not permit me to describe the countless answers to prayer that I myself have received thus far in my life, yeah. god loves you, but not the little girl being raped by her father and his friends every night. that god, he's a great guy. see how ugly this sort of thing gets if you think about for more than 0.2 seconds? not to mention the millions of others who have had the same experience. name them. Although this evidence is a subjective one, it still must be included for it is quite significant. no, it doesn't. conversion fail.
4. The sense of God's presence by those who serve Him attests to God's existence. no, it doesn't. i can attest to the presence of tiny pink unicorns, it doesn't make them real. asshat. Although this is a subjective fact therefore not a fact, it nevertheless remains a reality for those who know the Lord. i'm sure it's real to you, that doesn't make it objectively real. you know, like proveable? God's presence can be sensed within man's spirit. Even though this is rather difficult to explain, it is quite real.
God is real, and He truly does love you. does he love 6 year old sex slaves? child soldiers? cancer victims? He desires to reveal Himself to you as your Father. He cares about you and has created you for a purpose. Whether you believe in Him or not, you will stand before Him laid bare one day. why is it always with the naked with these people? And on that day, atheist, agnostic, and theist alike will see God face to face before His throne of judgment. wait for it Since God exists we didn't even prove that yet!, then we must be prepared to meet Him; the Bible declares, "prepare to meet your God" (Amos 4:12). wow, a book that holds no significance for me says something. Therefore, it is foolish and dangerous to imagine that He does not exist. severe misuse of the word "therefore".We must not only acknowledge His existence, but we must prepare to meet Him. yeah, you prepare to meet the nonexistent sky-daddy, i'm getting some coffee.
If you are an atheist, I hope that you will be responsible and sober in this matter and reconsider your position. wait, i shouldn't read this after drinking a fifth of vodka? you need to be more clear on that from the beginning! If you are an intellectual atheist, I exhort you to consider the evidence of our immense, orderly, and complex universe, for God's footprints are all over it. In a word, the universe is the undeniable handiwork of a Divine Designer. no, the creation does not prove the creator. sorry. ray's still trying to sell that, too.
If you are an immoral atheist, I challenge you to get honest with yourself, and face the fact that you will never be happy in continuing to live a lie and in offending your conscience. Repent of your wickedness and selfishness, and acknowledge God as your Creator and Ruler. Quit lying to yourself and to others. stop with the sinning, it looks like fun!
Finally, if you are an emotional atheist, I want to encourage you to ask God to reveal His wonderful love to your heart. may as well dance for rain in the desert. that might even happen. Ask Him to make Himself real to you, but don't limit Him in the way that He chooses to do this. if he gives you cancer, it's for a good cause. quit whining. Don't be afraid to talk to Him, even though you may not be sure He is there. I tell you, if you seek Him with an honest and open heart, He will surely hear you, for He has promised, "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). bible quotes are pointless with atheists.
Acknowledging God's existence will naturally lead you to find His Son, our Savior Jesus Christ. oops, i accidentally converted to hinduism, was that not the goal? When you accept the Lord Jesus, a life filled with purpose, joy, and peace will begin for you. my life is already filled with purpose, joy and peace. can he give me something else? i dunno, like perfect skin, or awesome hair? It is the abundant life that Jesus promised to all who follow Him - a life of knowing God today and being assured of eternal life tomorrow. you know, eternal life isn't really attractive to everyone. just so you know. Yet, such a new life begins with first believing that God exists, for "without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). May we all acknowledge God's existence and accept Christ into our hearts. In this way, God shall no longer be a Judge, but instead be a loving Father to us. is this some sort of weird definition of love i am not familiar with?
anyway, great big CONVERSION FAIL.
I'm starting to think that maybe I've been doing this for a little too long. I was actually happy to find the below article. Honestly, when will people learn?
There Is a God
In the world today there exists a class of people who call themselves atheists. no, There are atheists. We don't say "In the word today there exists a class of people who call themselves Christians," do we? I can't decide if that is just really bad writing, or some sort of slam on atheists. "They're not really atheists, they just call themselves atheists" or something. These individuals believe that there is no God. no, we don't believe in god. one is actively disbelieving, one is simply disbelief. bad writing or conspiracy? While not all atheists are the same in their reasoning, how nice of you to notice! they all confidently assert that God does not exist. actually, i confidently assert that I have not seen any proof of god, but, if i did, i would believe. i'm not being willfully stupid over here. Consider the three major types of atheists that's odd, atheists don't refer to three different kinds of atheists:
1. The intellectual atheist. because knowing things and thinking is bad! elitists! This person honestly feels that there is a lack of sufficient evidence to demonstrate God's existence. so true. The intellectual atheist claims that he cannot put faith in anything that he himself cannot see, feel, nor touch with his physical senses. claims? we have to take people on their word with this sort of thing. besides that, um, faith? the "intellectual atheist" probably has a large enough vocabulary to understand what "faith" means. if you can see, feel, touch, taste or hear something, faith is not necessary. duh. (This, of course, is not a valid argument, for there are many things we all take by faith that we haven't seen for ourselves. and let rip with a totally specious argument For example, most people believe that asteroids exist, even though they may have never seen one except that you can show me pictures of asteroids, you can show me asteroids that have hit the earth, i could go to a telescope and see one myself. i accept that australia exists not because i've ever been there, but because lots of other people have.). Hence, the intellectual atheist uses many arguments of reason and logic to defend his position. yes, intellectual elitists are known for their reason and logic.
Most intellectual atheists, however, have never really examined the evidence that demonstrates God's existence. yes, we have. over and over and over again. probably more than you. sorry. Since many of them are open to reason yes, intellectuals are indeed open to reason, most intellectual atheists reject their atheistic position upon hearing the evidence which supports that there is a God. and what, pray tell, is this amazing evidence that automatically converts intellectual atheists? if it's that good, why not bring it up here and convert unsuspecting atheists on the spot?
2. The immoral atheist. didn't i just do a post on this? oh, yes. here we are. atheists and christians act exactly the same. neat. This person denies God's existence because he loves his sin. find me this person. i've never met one, and i am an atheist. He is basically a selfish individual, and delights in practices that offend God's law why, yes, i do quite often eat shrimp, wear clothes made of two different fabrics and sit in chairs that menstruating women have sat upon. just to piss of a deity i don't believe exists. The immoral atheist rejects the notion that God exists so as to make himself feel that he is not accountable to anyone for his actions. that wouldn't make him an atheist, that would make him a person with serious issues. His moral state prevents him from acknowledging God's existence. sure. He surmises that if God exists, then he will be accountable and will have to face judgment for his unrighteous deeds. uh huh This person can be likened unto a criminal. likened unto? was this written in 1625? A criminal would like to believe that law enforcers do not exist. a smart criminal, on the other hand, would learn as much about those "enforcers" as possible, in order to avoid being caught. In like manner, the immoral atheist would like for God not to exist. i'd like for malaria not to exist, does thinking it away actually work? This, then, is the underlying reason for his belief. or lack thereof. So in order to appease his conscience and disregard the fear of judgment, the immoral atheist persuades himself that there is no God. that's just silly.
3. The emotional atheist. Probably most atheists today are of this type. really. because i doubt the writer of this has ever once interacted with an atheist, much less a lot of atheists. Unlike the intellectual and immoral atheist, the emotional atheist does not reject God's existence because of reason, nor because he loves sin. Instead, the emotional atheist denies God's existence because all he has experienced in his life has been pain, sorrow, and heart-break. the bad-daddy theory of atheism. very few people turn to atheism after heart break. in fact, most people turn to religion after heart break. i actually do interact with other atheists on a regular basis, and i don't know anyone who went from christian to atheist after a tragedy. sometimes, the tragedy is the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, but not the only factor, or even the most important one. This person cannot see any sense nor purpose in life; atheists do have a purpose in life- to live it. as fully as possible, as long as possible. it all makes no sense to him. yeah, we're just walking around broken, looking for a new, not-so-bad-daddy. the sky-daddy! He has never experienced true love and concern from others. stop that. we have all experienced true love and concern from others, at least once. atheists are not psychopaths. Hence, he can only conclude that if there was a God, life would not be so painful. yeesh. Out of all of the different types of atheists, the emotional atheist is most open to see the truth that God exists. good luck with that. For once he sees the love of God and experiences it, he abandons his atheism. the love that allows terrible things to happen to innocent people, or the love that condemns people to an eternity in hell for no reason. remember, to the writer of this article, a child molester who accepted jesus in in heaven, but ghandi is burning in hell. that's love.
now we will be subjected to poorly reasoned "proofs" of yhwh:
In examining the evidence for God, it is interesting to note that the Bible never seeks to prove His existence. what?! Rather, the Bible assumes God's existence from the very start and affirms that God's existence is an unshakable fact that need not be explained. so do the harry potter novels, the lord of the rings series and the wheel of time series. so what? According to the Bible verses cited at the beginning of this article, God has given man sufficient evidence to believe in Him. and i should trust this book over a harry potter book because? For this reason, the Bible simply states that atheism is foolish (Psalms 14:1). wow, a book about a religion that states that other beliefs are foolish? that's amazing! you've convinced me! conversion fail. The foolishness of atheism is exposed when we consider how utterly small, finite, and limited man is in this universe. what? according to asshats like these, the entire universe was made just for man, and you think this proves your position how?
When a person claims that he absolutely knows that God does not exist, he is essentially saying, in effect, that he has all knowledge and all power. i've dealt with this before. I haven't met any atheists who claim that they absolutely know that god does not exist. we say that, given what we've seen so far, we do not believe in god. if something changes, we'll reevaluate. This may sound strange at first, but let us discuss it for a moment. Consider how you, as a mere human being, compare with all that is around you. You are one person on planet earth where 6 billion other people, like yourself, reside. Have you been to all parts of this planet to seek out and search whether or not God exists? Have you been to every continent, every country, every state, province and city? Have you explored every ocean, sea, river, and lake? Taking it a step further, although planet earth is incredibly large, the sun is far larger. If the sun could be excavated, you could fit hundreds of thousands of earths inside of it! And the sun is only one medium sized star among millions of other stars in the universe. In fact, some stars are over 500 times larger than the sun! Furthermore, there are literally hundreds of millions of other solar systems besides ours! Is this not breathtaking to consider? Have you been to all of them to seek and to search God out? no, i don't have that kind of time on my hands, but, conversion fail.
Concerning the size of the universe, astronomers tell us that some stars are so far from us that the light from them has been traveling for thousands of years, and it still hasn't reached the earth yet! Finally, we live in the dimension of space and time; can you be absolutely certain that there is not another dimension beyond time and space wherein God may exist? If a dimension outside of time exists, which is quite likely, have you investigated it through and through to see if God is there? In sum, are you, as a mere mortal who has not even walked through the whole earth, qualified to declare that God does not exist? Are you, who stand under 7 feet and only take up several inches of ground in this enormous universe, competent to say that God does not exist? let me say it again: we say that, given what we've seen so far, we do not believe in god. if something changes, we'll reevaluate. conversion fail. (ray comfort is fond of this type of "logic", too.)
Perhaps by now you have seen my point. i saw it 3 paragraphs ago. Since you and I are so utterly small, restricted, and limited in our knowledge, being, and power compared to the breath-taking vastness and enormity of the universe, it is utter arrogance and nonsense for any of us to declare with confidence that God does not exist. i can, however, say with confidence that i have seen no proof thereof.
Man is incompetent to make such a judgment. so, i have to belief, whether i do or not? will we be moving on to Pascal's Wager next? By doing so, he is basically saying, in effect, that he himself is God! logic fail. A = B, therefore C = Q? In other words, to state that God does not exist is to indicate that we have all-knowledge and all-power, that we have investigated every corner and curve of the universe, and that as a consequence, we can be sure that God does not exist. How can you or I, who cannot explain how our hearts beat, or if it will rain tomorrow, or what will happen to us next year, dare say that God does not exist? If you cannot know such simple things, what makes you an authority on the question of God's existence? Therefore, the position of atheism, when carefully examined, is truly foolish and presumptuous. beating a dead horse may or may not be useful, but i can you that beating a dead conversion attempt is just annoying.
Let us briefly consider just a few facts that evidence God's existence finally!
1. The complexity, order, sophistication, and intricate design of the universe, ecosystem, and all biological and botanical life attest to an intelligent Creator, which is God at what point does complexity, order, sophistication and intricacy demand a creator? who's to say that we are just not quote complex or intricate enough to demand a creator? who's to say that a creator is necessary for this? no one.(Romans 1:19,20, Psalms 19:1, 139:14-17).
i separated these two sections because they are different ideas. the first one is the argument of complexity, the second is otherwise stated as "creation proves the creator proves the creation proves the creator"
There are only three alternatives to explain the origin of the universe: 1) it always existed, 2) it was created by chance, or 3) it was created by God. It is utterly inconceivable to believe that the universe and all it contains could exist apart from a Supreme Designer. The universe could not have always existed, for it is expanding and contracting. This suggests that it came into existence at a certain point in time. Furthermore, the universe could not have been created by chance for it is too orderly and complex. It is a basic principle that the things that chance creates are always unorganized, irregular, inconsistent, and partially integrated. Moreover, whatever chance creates, it almost instantaneously destroys.
For example, if I continue to throw a chair up in the air, by chance, the chair will eventually fall to the ground on its four legs. However, the next time I throw it up, it will land once again on its back or side. Consider another example. Suppose we put a monkey at a typewriter. If a monkey stays at a typewriter long enough, he may eventually produce a coherent sentence (maybe after a few hundred years of typing). However, with the next few strokes that the monkey makes after completing this coherent sentence, he will have made the sentence incoherent through his arbitrary typing. Hence, whatever organization chance can create, it almost instantaneously destroys by the same mechanism that it utilized to produce the organization. It is inconceivable, then, to believe that chance could create anything complex and sophisticated, whether it be a watch, a car, or a computer. All of these things require a designer. Therefore, the consistency, organization, symmetry, form, and purposefulness of the universe speaks very strongly to God's existence.
actually, Steven J's response to a typical Ray Comfort post explains this very well. (Ray's a heck of a moron, but readings responses to Ray's inanity is about as good as a graduate level course in science, and free!
2. A natural and inborn desire for God in the heart of man attests to His existence. we also have natural inborn desires for sex, society, music and art. what does that prove?Virtually every religion in the world affirms a Creator. so Hinduism is as valid as Christianity is as valid as Shintoism is as valid as Islam? really? I don't think this guy meant to say that. There is no culture on planet earth that does not have a religion as a part of its tradition. so? most cultures include a tradition of slavery, misogyny and child abuse. should we bring those back, too? The belief in a Divine Person, then, is universal this is an appeal to popularity: it really doesn't matter how many people believe in a thing, that doesn't make it true.; it can be found in all cultures, nations, and tribes. Desire always implies and indicates the existence of an object in the world. or the existence of an idea. "freedom" is not an object, yet people desire it. the desire for a sky-daddy to make it all better does not prove the existence of a sky-daddy. If a person desires something, it affirms that the object desired exists. If, for example, I desire a car, a family, a house, or a particular job, then my desire for these objects demonstrates their existence. Moreover, orphans, by nature, desire parental love, even though they may have never seen their real parents. All orphans have this irresistible yearning. Hence, every desire of the heart arises out of an existing and real object.
Seeing that people in all cultures have a capacity and a desire to believe in, to know, and to fellowship with God, then God must exist. The explanation for this, of course, is that God created man with a capacity to know Him and to fellowship with Him. Interestingly, the Bible teaches exactly that, thus confirming human experience. wow, writers in the bible noticed the same thing about people that this guy did. must be divinely inspired. conversion fail.
3. The multitudes of answered prayers confirm God's existence. do the multitudes of unanswered prayers disprove god's existence? seriously, this is just silly. you cannot prove to me that god answered any prayers. think about it. your mother is in the hospital, desperately ill. one of three things is going to happen: (1) she will die, (2) she will get better, (3) she will stay the same. if you pray to god and she gets better, that's something that would have happened anyway. All who have known God throughout the span of time, know that He exists by His response to their prayers and the specific guidance that He affords them in life. Neither coincidence nor chance can possibly account for the thousands upon thousands of answered prayers that servants of God in the past and present have received. prove it. you can't. Although atheists try to dismiss and brush aside all of the answers to prayers that people throughout the centuries have reported, so, some guy said something happened, that he can't prove happened and couldn't be duplicated even if we do believe it happened? wow, sign me up for some jesus! can any one of them prove that such reports are not genuine? if you assert a thing, it is up to you to prove it to be true. it's not my responsibility to disprove it. that's how logical argumentation works. Time and space would not permit me to describe the countless answers to prayer that I myself have received thus far in my life, yeah. god loves you, but not the little girl being raped by her father and his friends every night. that god, he's a great guy. see how ugly this sort of thing gets if you think about for more than 0.2 seconds? not to mention the millions of others who have had the same experience. name them. Although this evidence is a subjective one, it still must be included for it is quite significant. no, it doesn't. conversion fail.
4. The sense of God's presence by those who serve Him attests to God's existence. no, it doesn't. i can attest to the presence of tiny pink unicorns, it doesn't make them real. asshat. Although this is a subjective fact therefore not a fact, it nevertheless remains a reality for those who know the Lord. i'm sure it's real to you, that doesn't make it objectively real. you know, like proveable? God's presence can be sensed within man's spirit. Even though this is rather difficult to explain, it is quite real.
God is real, and He truly does love you. does he love 6 year old sex slaves? child soldiers? cancer victims? He desires to reveal Himself to you as your Father. He cares about you and has created you for a purpose. Whether you believe in Him or not, you will stand before Him laid bare one day. why is it always with the naked with these people? And on that day, atheist, agnostic, and theist alike will see God face to face before His throne of judgment. wait for it Since God exists we didn't even prove that yet!, then we must be prepared to meet Him; the Bible declares, "prepare to meet your God" (Amos 4:12). wow, a book that holds no significance for me says something. Therefore, it is foolish and dangerous to imagine that He does not exist. severe misuse of the word "therefore".We must not only acknowledge His existence, but we must prepare to meet Him. yeah, you prepare to meet the nonexistent sky-daddy, i'm getting some coffee.
If you are an atheist, I hope that you will be responsible and sober in this matter and reconsider your position. wait, i shouldn't read this after drinking a fifth of vodka? you need to be more clear on that from the beginning! If you are an intellectual atheist, I exhort you to consider the evidence of our immense, orderly, and complex universe, for God's footprints are all over it. In a word, the universe is the undeniable handiwork of a Divine Designer. no, the creation does not prove the creator. sorry. ray's still trying to sell that, too.
If you are an immoral atheist, I challenge you to get honest with yourself, and face the fact that you will never be happy in continuing to live a lie and in offending your conscience. Repent of your wickedness and selfishness, and acknowledge God as your Creator and Ruler. Quit lying to yourself and to others. stop with the sinning, it looks like fun!
Finally, if you are an emotional atheist, I want to encourage you to ask God to reveal His wonderful love to your heart. may as well dance for rain in the desert. that might even happen. Ask Him to make Himself real to you, but don't limit Him in the way that He chooses to do this. if he gives you cancer, it's for a good cause. quit whining. Don't be afraid to talk to Him, even though you may not be sure He is there. I tell you, if you seek Him with an honest and open heart, He will surely hear you, for He has promised, "And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). bible quotes are pointless with atheists.
Acknowledging God's existence will naturally lead you to find His Son, our Savior Jesus Christ. oops, i accidentally converted to hinduism, was that not the goal? When you accept the Lord Jesus, a life filled with purpose, joy, and peace will begin for you. my life is already filled with purpose, joy and peace. can he give me something else? i dunno, like perfect skin, or awesome hair? It is the abundant life that Jesus promised to all who follow Him - a life of knowing God today and being assured of eternal life tomorrow. you know, eternal life isn't really attractive to everyone. just so you know. Yet, such a new life begins with first believing that God exists, for "without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him" (Hebrews 11:6). May we all acknowledge God's existence and accept Christ into our hearts. In this way, God shall no longer be a Judge, but instead be a loving Father to us. is this some sort of weird definition of love i am not familiar with?
anyway, great big CONVERSION FAIL.
Friday, January 23, 2009
Chat-O-Matic Witnessing Tool
chat-o-matic, convert, witness, witnessing, evangelical, evangelism, atheism, atheist, atheophobia, religion, christian, fundamentalism,
Not really sure why you believe in the sky daddy? Yeah, that's a bitch when you need to get with the witnessing, especially with those pesky atheists, who have an annoying habit of not immediately converting upon hearing that jesus died for their sins.
Not to fear, now you can convert the chatroom heathens with the Chat-O-Matic Witnessing Tool! (I am not kidding.) Basically, the Chat-O-Matic gives you phrases to cut and paste and links to get you to the next phrase in the chain.
A Demonstration (apparently this thing is foolproof, so if you don't want to accidentally convert to christianity, I would suggest not reading it all at once.)
If you enter an Atheist Room, paste this...
Is there an atheist in here willing to answer some questions for me?
(admittedly, I would totally go for this, but I do have a nasty sense of humor.)
(Choose the first person who says yes) i guess we're assuming it's a room full of people who have the same humor i do
Paste the following sentence and be sure to put their screen-name in front first.
- Do you "know" there is no God or, is it your "opinion" there is no God?
false dichotomies. i have never seen any proof of god, therefore i do not believe there is a god.
well, there's a chat-o-matic response for that one,
If says, "Atheism only means lack of belief in any god", paste this...
If it's just that you lack a belief and you don't know for a fact, isn't it POSSIBLE that God MIGHT exist?
yes, actually, it is possible god might exist. i don't know everything, i haven't seen or experienced everything. i just haven't seen any proof of this. it's also possible there is a secret lair of pink unicorns somewhere, but that's hardly the topic of discussion here, is it?
Good, if it can be REASONABLY shown that this possible God had a Son, Jesus, who was sacrificed and rose from the dead to...
save humanity from its sin - will you believe in Him?
oh, i would totally encourage this. i mean "reasonably"? without using the bible as your proof? the mind boggles.
The person may ask what is meant by "reasonable"If so, paste this...
Within reason and to your satisfaction while allowing for the possibility that God might exist and that miracles may be possible.
wait a minute, i never said anything about miracles. i said god, like pink unicorns, may exist. how did we get to miracles?
If the person brings up the subject of MIRACLES
You have already agreed to the possibility that God (a miracle maker) might exist, therefore the possibility of miracles exists too...
Does this seem reasonable to you?
no, we did not establish that god the miracle maker might exist, only that god might exist. i'm not accepting pink unicorns and miracles in this hypothetical. pick one.
the next part of the chat-o-matic conversion tool requires that the atheist have stated whether they find miracles to be natural occurrences or frauds. personally, i think a combination of both, or simply things we don't have an explanation for yet, but we'll go with natural occurrence.
If the person says that many so-called miracles have been shown to bejust natural causes, paste this...
But that doesn't mean that a possible God didn't set those natural causes into motion for His divine purpose, thus still being a miracle...
Does this sound reasonable to you?
very poorly written, but i think the idea here is, even if miracles are proven to be natural occurrences, couldn't god have set those natural forces to work, thus still making it a natural occurrence?
miracle: an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause
anything proven to be possible by natural occurrences is necessarily not a miracle. but, according to the chat-o-matic, even if it's not a miracle, it's a miracle, in which case anything that happens, including me peeing, is a miracle that proves the existence of god.
no, this does not sound reasonable to me.
hey, that makes the witnesser go away!
Well, it seems we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the time you took in answering my questions. Take care and God bless.
see, here's the problem with witnessing to atheists: if you don't take the time to figure out what atheists actually believe, it's impossible to have a discussion with them about god. (see: ray comfort.) you're just talking at cross purposes. (ray: evolution means everything came from nothing. atheists: ray, if we've told you once we've told you a thousand times, no. stop it.)
so, if you simply cannot leave the atheists alone (i know, i know, you just can't keep it to yourself), please approach the subject and the atheist with the respect they both deserve, and don't take the chat-o-matic approach.
Not really sure why you believe in the sky daddy? Yeah, that's a bitch when you need to get with the witnessing, especially with those pesky atheists, who have an annoying habit of not immediately converting upon hearing that jesus died for their sins.
Not to fear, now you can convert the chatroom heathens with the Chat-O-Matic Witnessing Tool! (I am not kidding.) Basically, the Chat-O-Matic gives you phrases to cut and paste and links to get you to the next phrase in the chain.
A Demonstration (apparently this thing is foolproof, so if you don't want to accidentally convert to christianity, I would suggest not reading it all at once.)
If you enter an Atheist Room, paste this...
Is there an atheist in here willing to answer some questions for me?
(admittedly, I would totally go for this, but I do have a nasty sense of humor.)
(Choose the first person who says yes) i guess we're assuming it's a room full of people who have the same humor i do
Paste the following sentence and be sure to put their screen-name in front first.
- Do you "know" there is no God or, is it your "opinion" there is no God?
false dichotomies. i have never seen any proof of god, therefore i do not believe there is a god.
well, there's a chat-o-matic response for that one,
If says, "Atheism only means lack of belief in any god", paste this...
If it's just that you lack a belief and you don't know for a fact, isn't it POSSIBLE that God MIGHT exist?
yes, actually, it is possible god might exist. i don't know everything, i haven't seen or experienced everything. i just haven't seen any proof of this. it's also possible there is a secret lair of pink unicorns somewhere, but that's hardly the topic of discussion here, is it?
Good, if it can be REASONABLY shown that this possible God had a Son, Jesus, who was sacrificed and rose from the dead to...
save humanity from its sin - will you believe in Him?
oh, i would totally encourage this. i mean "reasonably"? without using the bible as your proof? the mind boggles.
The person may ask what is meant by "reasonable"If so, paste this...
Within reason and to your satisfaction while allowing for the possibility that God might exist and that miracles may be possible.
wait a minute, i never said anything about miracles. i said god, like pink unicorns, may exist. how did we get to miracles?
If the person brings up the subject of MIRACLES
You have already agreed to the possibility that God (a miracle maker) might exist, therefore the possibility of miracles exists too...
Does this seem reasonable to you?
no, we did not establish that god the miracle maker might exist, only that god might exist. i'm not accepting pink unicorns and miracles in this hypothetical. pick one.
the next part of the chat-o-matic conversion tool requires that the atheist have stated whether they find miracles to be natural occurrences or frauds. personally, i think a combination of both, or simply things we don't have an explanation for yet, but we'll go with natural occurrence.
If the person says that many so-called miracles have been shown to bejust natural causes, paste this...
But that doesn't mean that a possible God didn't set those natural causes into motion for His divine purpose, thus still being a miracle...
Does this sound reasonable to you?
very poorly written, but i think the idea here is, even if miracles are proven to be natural occurrences, couldn't god have set those natural forces to work, thus still making it a natural occurrence?
miracle: an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause
anything proven to be possible by natural occurrences is necessarily not a miracle. but, according to the chat-o-matic, even if it's not a miracle, it's a miracle, in which case anything that happens, including me peeing, is a miracle that proves the existence of god.
no, this does not sound reasonable to me.
hey, that makes the witnesser go away!
Well, it seems we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for the time you took in answering my questions. Take care and God bless.
see, here's the problem with witnessing to atheists: if you don't take the time to figure out what atheists actually believe, it's impossible to have a discussion with them about god. (see: ray comfort.) you're just talking at cross purposes. (ray: evolution means everything came from nothing. atheists: ray, if we've told you once we've told you a thousand times, no. stop it.)
so, if you simply cannot leave the atheists alone (i know, i know, you just can't keep it to yourself), please approach the subject and the atheist with the respect they both deserve, and don't take the chat-o-matic approach.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
