Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Your Issues Have Nothing to Do with Religion

In today's episode of Your Issues Have Nothing to Do with Religion (h/t to Kathryn31), we meet Tzvi Fishman and Michael Tuesday, who have written an article on God-approved married sex that makes me weep for their wives. (Note: standard Jewish teaching on the subject is that sex between spouses is a mitzvah and should be enjoyed any way the couple wishes. This group is apparently rather bizarre, even for fundamentalist Jews.)

So, what does God approve of in the sack? Not a whole lot.

In public and private forums, HaRav Leon has emphasized that the mitzvah of marital congress should not be carried out in a timid and fearful manner, but rather in a robust, loving, and joyous fashion, so that the souls which are brought into the world will be robust and joyful in their service of G-d. Referring to the Gemara that tells how Rabbi Eleazar would conduct his marital relations against his own will as if a demon were compelling him ("kfao shed" - Nedarim 20b), HaRav Leon takes vehement exception and warns that if a person engages in marital relations in such a way, then the offspring, G-d forbid, will be like demons.

Yes, they are indeed saying that whatever your mood is during sex will affect the behavior of the resultant offspring. They say it repeatedly. Sex while angry results in angry children. Thinking of someone else during sex results in horrible children. This is so 5,000 years ago . . . well, so's the holy book, I suppose.

It is a severe transgression for a husband to force himself upon his wife against her will, or when either of them is angry, for this results in children who are aggressive and crude.

"Forcing yourself upon your wife" is rape. That is why it is wrong. End of story.

It is the man’s duty to please his wife, to make her feel loved, and to take the time needed to make sure that her pleasure is complete.

I'd take that more seriously if you didn't just say that rape is wrong because it produces "crude" children.

Before marital relations, a husband should ask G-d to forgive him for all transgressions to the Brit [of a sexual nature] which he committed in the past, including brazen conduct with his wife, which gave strength to the Sitra Achra [negative forces] and caused pain to the Shechinah [Divine Presence]. His intention should be that in engaging in proper and holy marital relations, the souls which fell captive to the realm of impurity through his sins should be rectified and returned their Maker. Both husband and wife should have the intention to bring a holy soul into the world. They should long to unite the Holy One Blessed He and the exiled Shechinah. By guarding his eyes and his thoughts, the husband will radiate holiness and blessing to all of the spirituals worlds that were damaged through his former wrongdoings.

Catch that? Your every sexual thought can cause others' souls to fall captive to the realm of impurity. Boy, Catholics have nothing on this guilt!

During marital relations, the husband and wife should not think of anyone else, for in addition to damaging spiritual worlds, this brings great harm to the children who are born from such unions.

Again with this nonsense!

The exclusive position of the marital union is with the wife lying on her back, facing up, and the husband lying upon her, facing down. This way of union is the select and most perfect union, which the Torah desires. This is called, "the face to face union." Any other position is almost certain to bring about the spilling of semen in vain. If the woman is on top of the man, this is considered brazenness (Shulchan Aruch, 240:5) and the pull of gravity will surely cause the wasting of semen. The same is true if they are standing or sitting. Anal intercourse is considered an act of loathsome brazenness. Besides the absolute spilling of semen in vain, this is considered in the Kabbalah like sacrificing one’s children to the idol Molech. Intercourse from the back is also brazenness, even if the organ of the Brit is inserted into the proper place, and the pull of gravity will cause the spilling of semen in vain from the wife, since she lies on her stomach. Furthermore, because the strongest of klipot surround the buttocks of the woman, when the Brit passes by this impure area, it will be polluted by klipot and these klipot will be transferred to the wife’s sexual organ and to the offspring of such a union. Only in the case of physical handicap or advanced pregnancy may this positioned be approved by a qualified rabbinic authority.

My butt is Teh Evul? Good to know. I thought it was my boobs. Also, um, there's no difference in the length between vagina and anus ever. They're always the same distance apart, whether you're approaching from the front or the rear. I'm also terribly amused at the concept of asking someone other than your partner if you can pretty please do it doggy style.

Oral sex is certainly not kosher, causing the eyes to see what is forbidden to see, and causing the spilling of semen in vain.

So, a husband is not to see his wife's genitals, ever, nor is a wife to ever see her husband's penis. Ever. Um, yeah.

As a warning, the wife should continue to lie on her back after marital relation for approximately ten minutes, and not turn on her stomach or side, and not immediately rise from the bed to go the bathroom, so that her husband’s semen should not flow out from her and cause the wasting of semen.

Okay, here's a little anatomy lesson, or several. Semen is not entirely made up of sperm. Sperm will travel up the vagina to the uterus, though it might take longer than 10 minutes, but the rest of the ejaculate will come back out no matter how long you wait. In fact, given that the uterus/vagina is a self-cleaning organ, it's absolutely guaranteed that all of the ejaculate is eventually coming back out, save for the one sperm who fertilized an egg. Always. Guaranteed. Waiting 10 minutes is useless.

As for not getting up to go to the bathroom, another anatomy lesson. First of all, I suspect these people don't know that the urethral opening and the vaginal opening are two separate holes. (A surprising number of people do not know this.) So, peeing after sex will not clear out the semen. However, the urethral opening is close enough to the vagina that, especially during face-to-face sex, the urethral opening can be irritated or have bacteria introduced to it, which can lead to UTIs. Doctors recommend that women always pee after sex. I guess UTIs are holy!

The marital union should not be engaged in during the day. Children resulting from such unions, when the klipot are strongest, will be afflicted with sufferings throughout most of their lives. If a man cannot control his lust, and if there is thus a danger of spilling semen in vain, then relations may be conducted in a dark room, under blankets or sheets.


Having relations in a lighted room, whether by lamplight, candle, or moonlight, causes suffering in the children who are born from such unions. Rather, the marital union should be in a dark room at night, preferably after midnight when the klipot are weakened, and the couple must cover their bodies with a blanket or sheet out of modesty. Sabbath night after midnight is the most suitable time for a holy union.

No, really? I just can't see how anyone who believes this ever manages to have children. Also, every time of day is "after midnight", so you might want to be specific as to the ending time for holy unions.

It is a very great mitzvah to engage in marital relations on Sabbath night. It is also fitting one other night during the week, also on Rosh Chodesh, and on holidays when relations are permitted. A Torah scholar should endeavor not to engage in marital relations during weekdays, but rather on Sabbath night after midnight. On the night of the wife’s ritual immersion, or when she hints that she would like his favor, he can engage even during the week, preferably after midnight. It is known that marital relations on weeknights are more accessible to the influence of klipot, therefore one should strive for added holiness.

Never! You are never to have sex!

After going to the bathroom, it is proper for both husband and wife to wait ten minutes before engaging in marital relations. Otherwise impurity will be transferred to the offspring of such a union, adversely influencing their spiritual make-up.

Bodily functions = bad babies

Wow. I don't even know what to say. And if this is a Poe, well, check out the website, that's one determined Poe.


  1. You must check your schedule against the seasons and the alignments of the stars, or else you may foul the Great Magic!

    Klaatu Barata Nichew ::cough::

    Hey! No fair! I said it right!

    ::grabs the necronomicon and runs::

  2. Huh. We've finally found someone who knows so little about sex and the female anatomy that I can mock them with impunity. Neat!

    Sadly, this depresses me so much that I have nothing to say...

  3. Having recently talked to a doctor who apparently doesn't realize that women get their fingers all up in their business while wiping up after peeing, don't feel too bad.

  4. I am without speech. What year is this?

  5. Ah, but you're forgetting - it's the life mission of every religious zealot to control their followers. And what better control point is there than the groin?

  6. Rule #12 says: It is forbidden to look at the sexual organ of a woman, and also that of a man. This damages the eyes both physically and spiritually, and one will not be able to see the face of the Shechinah when the L-rd returns to Zion.

    My concern: Will we be able to see his divine schwanz?

  7. mutzali has me looking for God porn. well, if there is a hell, I'm absolutely guaranteed to show up there now.

  8. There was a joke at my Hillel that really orthodox Jews did it through a hole in the sheet.

    Coming from an awesome (aka liberal, reform) temple, my Rabbi told me that anal sex is fine as long as it is not the primary mode of sex. So we shouldn't be having more anal than vaginal sex. He also said that the position should be the choice of the woman - that might have just been marital advice to my husband. Then again, he also told me that we should only have fights when we are naked, to ensure that the fights are short and end happily.

    It is pretty amazing that those kinds of crazy people not only have kids but have several of them. Someone told me that women shouldn't read the parts of the talmud concerning menstruation because it would be embarrassing and unladylike. So only men should know what the rules are regarding that delicate time of the month. Genius.

    Some orthodox Jewish men won't sit where a woman has sat because she might be on the rag. I think that one is actually somewhere in Leviticus, not just complete hokum extrapolated from nothing and full of medieval magic. Anyhow, I used to sit on all the chairs in the public areas of the Hillel I worked out just so the Rabbi couldn't sit down.

    I like that the wife "hints" that she would "like his favor." Someone needs to invent the kosher dildo for these women. She can even use it in the dark, under the sheets and won't spill seed.

  9. Suppooosedly the "hole in the sheet" thing came from the laundry hanging out, and people who were already disposed to think strange things seeing the tallit katan, and assuming, "Hey, there's a hole in that there sheet!"

  10. I'm guessing that Gemara refers to a book and not one of the monsters in a Godzilla movie? Sounds like you'd get about as much useful sex advice from one as the other.

    Apparently, Montu Python wasn't really spoofing with the "every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great..."

  11. NEW GAME WITH YOU LITTLE F*CKERS - SPEAK N DIE. Come see the latest DM videos for your viewing pleasure!

    add comment moderation to your BS or more people will die with you...

    And the Pope is 100% correct: The Nazis and the atheists both wish to ABOLISH FAITH....




    THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!

  12. This comment has been removed by the author.

  13. NEW GAME WITH YOU LITTLE F*CKERS - SPEAK N DIE. Come see the latest DM videos for your viewing pleasure!

  14. Oooh, Speak'n'Die. Is that like a Speak'n'Spell? Or is it more like Truth Or Dare?

    I can see where this spam filter is going to force you at least be a bit more creative, Dennis. I'd applaud, if your subject matter weren't so repetitive and tiresome. So, instead, I renew my entreaty for you to seek professional help.

  15. Michael, maybe it's like a Sit'n'Spin, which, in my opinion, is what Dennis can do with his comments.

  16. "michael mock" you are going to learn to SHUT YOUR TRAP, you fucker...

  17. NEW GAME WITH YOU LITTLE F*CKERS - SPEAK N DIE. Come see the latest DM videos for your viewing pleasure!

  18. ::laughs:: Empty threats and meaningless words, Dennis. I'll say it again: you need psychological help. These things you do - the threats, the attempts at bullying - are unhealthy and unGodly. They're also ineffective.

    This is a list of psychotherapists in the Montreal area. Please (and I say this with some real concern that you might do yourself some harm) go see one of them.

    There are far, far better ways to get attention than this. Have a real conversation; you may find it surprisingly rewarding.

  19. michael mock... there is nothing that will save you...

  20. i've decided that DM *MUST* be a Poe [and i'm sort of sad about that - i really liked my idea that he was running a *HUGE* blog-based-MUD was MUCHMUCHMUCH cooler. and more fun]

    on to the Jews.
    what the fuck was that?
    seriously! what the FUCK was THAT.

    i know about 20 Jewish families. we'll ignore the 3 Sephardic families, since they have differences, and stick to Ashkinazi [however it's spelled]. most of the families i know are TECHNICALLY orthodox. [keep kosher in the home, but maybe not OUT of it - my old boss would eat bacon cheeseburgers. i'd go to wendy's, she'd ask for one, the first time it happened i about passed out. it was good for me though]

    the general idea of "unclean spirits" isn't WRONG, it's talked about by my Jewish friends - they say it's GERMS [the biggest being from anal sex, or going near the anus, before vaginal sex. which is apparantly a THING to DO, since coming in a butt is "spilling seed", but having anal sex then coming in the vagina is NOT. and THAT leads to *BIG!* health issues for the possessor of the vagina, so anal sex was deemed "unclean" because the anus is full of "unclean spirits" and etc. gotta hand to the Jews of -2,000 - they weren't STUPID; they saw the bad, saw how it happened, to steps to make sure it DIDN'T happen.

    at least, this is what my friends tell me :)

  21. ::sigh:: Save me from what? My life is actually quite good. I have no major health issues, good friends, and a really excellent family. If God is in His Heaven, the He obviously LOVES me.

    You keep falling back on the same old stock replies. We're going to learn to shut our traps. We're going to be tortured and killed. We die today. We're going to be crucified. Nothing can save us.

    You keep saying these things, and they keep not happening.

  22. So, Dennis, you're now also posting as "Atheist Wars"? You should stick with one name, it's less confusing.

    Meanwhile, was it Jesus that told you to threaten people with death and torture? You still haven't answered that.

    Do you talk to Jesus much? Because I don't recall Him saying anything like that, and we play poker every Thursday. (Oh, hey, that's tonight, isn't it? Thanks for reminding me - I need to bring one of the spare water-cooler bottles from work with me. It's a pain to pour from a 20-gallon bottle of wine, but as long as we don't mind the wine, it's free.)

    (Yes, that's how Jesus saves...)

  23. NCynic - you are now my favoritest person on the whole wide web [sorry PF - i'm sure you'll reclaim the title eventually! lol]

  24. The Talmud is about 1500 years old, not 5000. The other source quoted, the Shulchan Aruch, is around 500 years old.

    Note also that the Talmud in another section says that anal sex between a man and woman is acceptable.

    The idea that what one was thinking can influence what children act or look like was actually a common folk belief until this century, and still exists in less educated populations.

    Note that the vast majority of Orthodox Jews don't follow almost anything this individual is saying. In particular, different sexual positions are generally considered acceptable.

    Regarding Meg's remark- as far as I'm aware no one does the hole in a sheet thing. It is essentially an urban legend. It is however noteworthy that many different groups claim that other groups do that (a friend of mine who group in the south recalls that some Protestants thought that Catholics did it through a sheet). Cynical Nymph's hypothesis that the claim is most commonly made about Orthodox Jews because of the tallit katan is plausible.

    Regarding whether women should read the sections of the Talmud dealing with menstruation, I've never heard before the claim that women should not. Indeed, in many very traditional/right-wing Orthodox settings, those are some of the few sections where women are allowed to read (or if they are allowed anything at all it is often not going to be the Talmud itself but rather secondary sources and law codes). This actually leads to a weird social control issue in that many men actually refuse to learn about the rules for menstruation and so their wives can claim to be permitted or not more or less however they please.

    Note also that in some respects the quoted material is actually fairly tame. For example, many Orthodox Jews believe that a child conceived when a woman is in nidah (the ritual time during and after her period) the child will have bad virtues. As a result, some charedim (ultra-Orthodox Jews) will refuse to have their children marry baalei tsuvot (people who didn't grow up Orthodox but then became so). Of course, no one tells them this until after they've already become very religious.


Comments are for you guys, not for me. Say what you will. Don't feel compelled to stay on topic, I enjoy it when comments enter Tangentville or veer off into Non Sequitur Town. Just keep it polite, okay?

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