Pics or It Didn't Happen

what really happened to the dinosaurs

creationism, evolution, darwin, ray, comfort,

In case you hadn't heard (I'm not sure how), Ray Comfort is distributing mangled copies of Origin of the Species across college campuses nationwide. By mangled, I mean missing 4 chapters. I defy you to take 4 chapters out of any book and have a book that makes sense, but I digress.

UPDATE: Apparently, the 4 chapters are back in, but the forward written by Comfort that was supposed to be out is back in. The last version of the forward that I read blamed Darwin for racism and eugenics.

Someone at Just Truth participated in the giveaway, and had this to say about it:

I saw a post where an atheist said “arguments” were everywhere, which is sadly a mistake. I had one or two conversations with some VERY intelligent people who presented their case very well, sadly my communications skills were not such that I could properly convey my questions to them. My question was “how can evolution cause everything to evolve at the exact same rate? Where are the monkey/men and the blob/monkeys? For evolution to be true it would have to be a continual process.. However it seems to have stopped, even in the species alive today” the “best” answer I got was directed at theistic evolution, which isn’t what the Bible teaches. I have the utmost respect for the people we spoke to, I am certain they think we’re delusional, and we think they simply MUST not know the truth. I think they have had evolution thrown at them from the time they were old enough to watch TV, and taught it is fact. And sadly the parents, even most of the Christian ones don’t make the effort to combat that lie. Christians depend on the church to do it, when it’s not the churches job. It’s ours…. But that’s a rant for another day!

There is so much wrong with that it's hard to know where to start, but I would like to note that it seems to point to several serious misunderstandings about the Theory of Evolution that it might be worthwhile to note. (Whether those misunderstandings are deliberate or not is another post.)



1. Everything is, or should be, evolving at the same rate.





This is a rather odd statement on his part, in that it entirely ignores the fact, well documented fact at that, that not everything evolves at the same rate. Some things, like sharks, have hardly evolved at all, while other things, like pepper moths, have evolved in very short periods of time.





Evolution is not some sort of constant like the speed of light. Sharks have no need to evolve, they survive and reproduce quite well just as they are. Since evolution is simply the changes that accumulate leading to better survival and reproduction, if you don't need to change, you won't. Lighter pepper moths, on the other hand, were being wiped out due to their coloring, so darker pepper moths survived and reproduced, leading to darker pepper moths over all in a very short period of time.





2. It's not evolution unless some dramatic change occurs.





At least I assume that's what the "blob/monkey" comment is about. (Blobs? What the hell is a blob, anyway?) Evolution is change. Changes within a species that do not result in an entirely new species are still the result of evolution. You have to entirely change the definition of evolution to state that unless a new species is formed, there is no evolution going on. If we can do that, then you're not reading this on a computer, you're reading this post on a toaster. Words have no meaning! Bagel printing sow more certain ensure effect courts!





3. I can't see evolution happening in front of my eyes, so it isn't happening.





You can't see the rotation of the earth around the sun, either, and that's happening. You can't see gravity, yet you aren't floating.





Sarcasm aside, shave your head. Take a picture of your head every day for 30 days. At the end of 30 days, you will have 1/2" of hair, yet day to day your hair will look exactly the same. Multiply that effect by a few million years, and you have evolution.

That's My Line

god, christianity, jesus, ray, comfort, science, intelligent, design

Every now and then, a fundy will accidentally tell the truth. Ray Comfort, who continually spews the "Intelligent Design is totally science!" line, actually had this to say today:

So Ray I have a question for you. How did the 16000 or so kinds on Noah’s ark become the 1.4 species today?"

I wouldn’t let it worry you too much. It won’t be an issue on Judgment Day. Just say to yourself, "With God, nothing is impossible," or as the cynic says, "Goddidit." That solves the issue. It also solves the issue of how Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves and two fish, how He walked on water, calmed a storm by speaking to it, etc.

It's not every day you see a fundy admit that they willfully do not think.

The Scientific Method

religion, science, babies, baby, christian, creationism, ray, hovind, atheism, atheist,

My newest niece just turned one*. I caught a ride to work with my sister and my niece, we'll call her Blondie, was in the back seat with a half-full bottle of formula.

I watched Blondie as she tried to get formula out of the bottle without sucking on it. Her first try was to hold the bottle upside-down. This did not work. Then she tried holding the bottle upside-down and shaking it, with no success. Blondie then experimented with variations on the same theme: holding the bottle at a 90 degree angle, holding it straight out from her body like a wand, with and without shaking, etc.

Eventually, Blondie ended up accidentally squeezing the nipple of the bottle and formula flew out. Success! She then worked out the most efficient way to squeeze the nipple (gripping it with her fingers in the manner of milking a cow) and formula was everywhere, at which point the experiment was abruptly ended.**

Blondie proved to me that humans are born knowing the scientific method. She formulated a hypothesis: If I hold the bottle upside-down, formula will come out. She tested that hypothesis. She worked out the results: formula does not come out when I hold the bottle upside down. She then reformulated the hypothesis: if I hold the bottle upside-down and shake it, formula will come out. She then repeated this process until she got her desired result.

So why is it that my one-year-old niece has a complete, intuitive understanding of science while asshats like Ray Comfort and Ed (Ted? Ken? Whatever.) Hovind can't figure it out?

Oh, wait, that's right- my niece is an atheist, being one year old and all.

Yeah, religion's harmless.

*I really wish I could show you a video of her. She is just the cutest thing ever, but this is the internet and there are pervs. Lots of pervs. Pervy pervs.

**My sister knew what was going on the whole time. She thought it was funny, too, until formula started raining all over the inside of her car.

Welcome to Fail, Population: Ray Comfort

ray, comfort, bible, god, nasa, science, stupid,

I know I should stop reading anything written by Ray Comfort. I just need to stop. Preferably before his idiocy causes me to headdesk myself into a coma.

His post on science/NASA, oddly, has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus, God, the Bible or, well, anything. And yet it's possibly the most infuriating thing he's ever written. (I know, it's amazing.)

A recent news item said, "Scientists have detected that New Zealand was moved about 30cm (12 inches) closer to Australia by a 7.8 magnitude earthquake in the Tasman Sea last week." I really wish this guy would link something. I'm not even sure you're allowed to quote people like that without attribution. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's plagiarism. Anyway, the whole freakin' island moved? Awesome! I bet there were some very surprised sheep that day. And being sheep, they showed it by continuing to eat grass and look stupid.

There was another report saying, " . . . on the west coast of the South Island and a 2-inch tsunami reported in the Tasman Sea to the north of the epicenter, according to the U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center." again, total lack of attribution. and i still can't figure out what his point is . . . wait, it's the end of the world as we know it! right? the rapture? four horsemen of the apocalypse?

A whole country moved 12 inches, and a two-inch tsunami. Wow. And people wonder why we lose faith in modern science when they come up with such silliness. nope. why is the movement of an island and a tsunami scientific "silliness"? Is Ray trying to say those things didn't happen? what . . . wtf?

Think of the incredible achievement of landing a man on the moon. yeah, that was pretty cool, huh? especially considering that the computers they used were collectively less powerful than my xbox. When it happened, it was a huge deal. still a big deal, Ray. i mean, c'mon, the moon! have you ever been to the moon? have you ever been to reality? What do we have to show for it 40 years later? WE WERE ON THE MOON! A cure to cancer? A cure for the common cold? A permanent solution for starving nations? why would landing on the moon produce any of those things? what does Ray suppose NASA's mission is, exactly? it's taking things from earth and shooting them off into space. they succeeded. repeatedly. Nope. We have rocks. Moon rocks. see, now i would have said that MOON ROCKS! FROM THE MOON! HOW COOL IS THAT? THE MOON! yeah, i totally wanted to be an astronaut when i was a kid. actually, I wanted to be Uhura, but astronaut seemed the closest achievable goal. i was five.

The CAT scan and a number of other inventions typical of Ray, I had to provide that link came from the space industry, but think of how much more could have been achieved if those billions had been put into pure science instead of rock-finding. okay, can anyone think of a better example of "pure science" than freakin' NASA? apparently, science is only "pure" if it's curing diseases that don't need curing. because millions die every year of the common cold. asshat.

Now they are talking about landing a man on the moon once again. The estimated cost for more rocks--$100 billion dollars. The cost of Ray's evangelism course? $99.95 for the intermediate course. which would you rather fund?

However, knowing the Creator and what He has in store for those that love Him, helps bring all this into perspective. There’s no hurry to check out the universe. We will have eternity to do that. was that non sequitur supposed to tie this post into the stated goal of Ray's blog? i have no idea. i suspect that Ray doesn't, either.

A Little Light Reading

ray, comfort, god, bible, jesus, religion, christianity,
The cold that became pneumonia seems to have eased off a bit, so let's reboot with a little light reading.

Oh, back when the cold was just a cold I did get my hair cut and got my glasses, but I can't seem to upload pictures to blogger from an iphone, so that'll come later. (And I'll change the donate button when I have a screen big enough to see all the html on at once.)

Ray Comfort's latest post:

"Sorry Ray, I do not take my morals from a God who drowns opposing armies in the ocean, killed every living thing on Earth in a global flood, punished humanity for all time for eating a piece of fruit, rained fire and brimstone on entire cities because he didn't like their behavior, killed the first born of an entire nation, and murdered his own son. Thank God he does not exist." askegg

This is the kind of thing that got me in trouble at Catholic school, btw. I would respond to these sorts of stories with horror, easily able to imagine the terror and pain of those god killed in the flood, in the genocides, with fire and brimstone. Even at the age of 6 I was capable of making the leap to understanding that these were people, just like you and me, just like god's chosen. God created everyone, according to the bible, why did he only love a few? And if he was capable of randomly hating his own creations, did he hate me?

Don't ever think too much on bible stories, it will wreck your faith.

It seems that you don’t know your Bible. oh, yes he does. God didn’t "kill every living thing on earth in a global flood." He allowed all the fish, and a family of eight people to be saved. oh, well, then, that makes it all right. hey, hitler was a really nice guy- he allowed a few jews to escape. let's all start celebrating hitler's birthday! He didn’t punish humanity "for all time for eating a piece of fruit." original sin? Adam was punished for his "disobedience" (see Romans 5:19). If you refuse God’s mercy, you too will be punished for your disobedience, not for Adam’s. what's interesting is that ray doesn't link to the actual story in Genesis 3. It's pretty clear all humanity was punished. we were expelled from the Garden of Eden, never to return. Women were punished with pain in childbirth, men were punished by having to work for food. Yeah, we were all punished, Ray.

You are also wrong when you said that "God murdered His own Son." well, god is omnipotent and omniscient. therefore, god knew exactly what would happen. also, according to your theology, Ray, Jesus/god had to be sacrificed to god/god just as jews sacrificed animals to take away sin. apparently, not even ray listens when ray speaks. The Bible says that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. Jesus of Nazareth was the Creator in human form okay, was god in jesus or was jesus god? those are two different statements. (see John 1:1, 1 Timothy 3:16). The reason God became a Man was to suffer for the sin of the world (taking the punishment that is due to us). because omnipoent god couldn't change his own rules why? We violated God’s Law (the Ten Commandments), and Jesus paid our fine. That means you can have your case dismissed. ray has no fucking idea how jurisprudence works, clearly. It means you can escape Hell, and receive everlasting life as a gift from God (see Romans 6:23). and why are we condemned to hell in the first place, ray?

God warned the Pharaoh ten times that He would judge Egypt, and hardened pharoah's heart twice to keep it all going. that's right, kids, pharoah wanted to let the israelites go, he wanted to end the plagues. god forced pharoah to keep it going to prove how powerful he was. yeah, that's not psychopathic. and you pin-pointed the reason for God drowning his army. It was because it was an "opposing" army. That's a good lesson for us: oppose and you lose. that's like a heavyweight boxer beating to death a toddler for talking back. not a fair fight. Like Pharaoh, you have been warned (through the Ten Commandments) that God will judge the world because it is at war with Him (see James 4:4). If you refuse to surrender and carry on with your rebellion, God will give you over to what the Bible calls a "reprobate mind." hell? I would hate that to happen to you.

You are right though about the fire and brimstone. The same Justice of God that fell on Sodom and Gomorrah abides on you (see John 3:36), believe it or not. yes, mass murder is always justice. Please, think about your eternal salvation. There's nothing more important. not that i do believe in god, but even if i did, i still wouldn't worship such a cruel, heartless, disgusting monster. i'm also not worshipping hitler or pol pot. get over it, ray.

The Proof is that there is no Proof

bible, prophecy, jesus, god, proof, unfulfilled, ray, comfort,

Ray Comfort has made his silliest argument yet, and it's one many a Christian makes: all the prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled, and the ones that haven't been fulfilled will be, and that's proof that God exists.

Wait, what?

"In Mark 14:62 in response to the chief priests and the council who have posed the question 'are you the Christ,' Jesus says: 'I am. And YOU will SEE me sitting at the right hand of power, and COMING with the clouds of heaven.' Did those men SEE him coming with the clouds or sitting in power? They almost certainly saw him die, but the Bible never confirms that this prophecy was fulfilled. In fact, when the Bible record ends, his disciples are still awaiting His coming. It never happened. It still hasn't happened 2000 years later. Why Ray? Is Jesus a False Prophet?"

You forgot that the hour is coming when all that are in their graves shall hear His voice (see John 5:28). There is going to be a resurrection of the just and the unjust (see John 5:29). Every eye will see Him. The chief priests will bow the knee before Him. So will Hitler and every murderer, rapist, thief and liar. Richard Dawkins will bow down to Jesus Christ as Lord of the Universe and Creator of all things (see Romans 14:11, Philippians 2:10). By Him, everything was created (see Colossians 1:16) and every human being will see him in His glory, including you. John saw the resurrected Christ and trembled in terror. He shines with a brightness above that of the sun (see Acts 26:13).

So it would be wise to stop asking whether He was a false prophet. Instead confess and forsake your sins, and put your trust in Him while He extends His mercy to sinful men and women. He has waited for 2,000 years because He is not willing that any perish, but that all come to repentance. Everything Jesus said would happen has happened throughout history (see Matthew 24 and Luke 21), and you can therefore bet your very soul that those men to whom Jesus said will see His coming, as sure as Hell will see it.

First of all, that's not an answer to the question, nor is it proof. It is a bald assertion, followed by a threat. Think about this for just a second. If someone borrowed $500 from you and promised to pay it back "soon", and then after a year, you asked them for the money and they said, "oh, yeah, soon, don't worry about it", would you accept that answer? Really?

Secondly, let's look at Matthew 24 and Luke 21. (Oddly, those were the two that Ray did not link.) In Matthew 24, Jesus predicts the destruction of the temple where the Dome of the Rock - مسجد قبة الصخرة‎ - now sits. At this point, the Temple Mount had already been destroyed once, by the Babylonians almost 600 years previously. Predicting that something that happened in the past may happen again in the future isn't that much of a leap.

What follows are the conditions that will precede Jesus' return, and what a unique set of circumstances those will be! Wars, rumors of wars, wars, famine, disease, earthquakes and lawlessness. Seriously? That's a prophecy? I predict that tomorrow, somewhere on the planet, it will rain. Because that's never happened in the history of the world.

Luke 21 contains the exact same text, word for word (or very close to it) as Matthew 24.

So there we have it, folks. Jesus predicted the predictable and the commonplace. And anything he predicted that hasn't come to pass, will. You have someone's word on it.

There are, in fact, a number of unfulfilled prophecies in the Bible, starting with Adam and Eve.

God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

God says that the Israelites will destroy all of the peoples they encounter. But according to Joshua ( 15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13) and Judges (1:21, 27-36, 3:1-5) there were some people they just couldn't kill. 7:24

These verses [in Isaiah] falsely predict that Babylon will never again be inhabited. 13:19-20

This verse [in Isaiah] predicts that there shall be five cities in Egypt that speak the Canaanite language. But that language was never spoken in Egypt, and it is extinct now. 19:18

"The light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold." Well, this is one prophecy that will never come true. Since the moon has no light of its own, but only reflects that of the sun, it could never shine like the sun. And the sun will not, at least not while there are humans to see it, shine 7 times as bright as it does now. 30:26

"David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel." But the Davidic line of Kings ended with Zedekiah; there were none during the Babylonian captivity, and there are none today. 33:17

"They shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them." Despite this promise, the Jews have been continually uprooted and their lives disrupted. Even today, their land ownership falls into question. 9:15

The gospel of Mark claims that John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy given in Malachi. But the Malachi prophecy says that God will send Elijah before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" in which the world will be consumed by fire. Yet John the Baptist flatly denied that he was Elijah (Elias) in John 1:21 and the earth was not destroyed after John's appearance. 3:1, 4:1, 5

That's just a short listing of all the unfulfilled prophecies and promises of God. Christian apologists who are Biblical literalists will tell you that some of those prophecies were fulfilled, because while the Bible says x, it really meant y. I guess it all depends on what the meaning of "literal" is.

Quote Vandalism

ray, comfort, atheism, atheist, quantum, physics, liar, stupid,
If I have taught you anything in my time blogging, I hope it is this: when you see a claim that seems extraordinary, you should investigate it. Obama's bust to be added to Mount Rushmore immediately led me to discover that a large bust of Obama has been traveling the country, and will end up at a park near Mount Rushmore, for example.

Another good example of this is Ray Comfort's latest post, which reveals nothing but Ray's inherent dishonesty:

"[Ray wrote] 'If you think that's bad, try this: there are crazies out there that truly believe that women are related to primates, and those primates came from nothing.' "All women, and all men, are primates by biological definition. Acceptance of this biological definition is not evidence of mental instability, thus your accusation that such individuals are 'crazy' is wholly unfounded. Who, specifically, holds a belief that primates emerged from 'nothing'? Please identify specific individuals, and cite statements from these individuals." Dimensio

He asked:

1. "It is now becoming clear that everything can -- and probably did -- come from nothing." Robert A. J. Matthews, physicist, Ashton University, England

I found the article. Matthews was talking about the habit things have of appearing out of nowhere at the quantum level, which is a well established phenomenon.

New theoretical work on the nature of matter suggests we may now have to regard even ourselves to be manifestations of the quantum vacuum.

All atoms are made up of electrons plus a far more massive central nucleus, made up of clusters of particles called quarks. It seems obvious that the mass of the nucleus must be the sum total of the masses of its quarks – but that reckons without the effect of the quantum vacuum. It turns out that the quarks account for only a tiny fraction of the total mass of a nucleus. By far the bulk comes from the subatomic “glue” that binds its quarks together. And this glue takes the form of vacuum particles flitting in and out of existence.

2. "Space and time both started at the Big Bang and therefore there was nothing before it." Cornell University "Ask an Astronomer."

Typical of Ray, I had to supply the link. Here's what Karen Masters, whose name Ray didn't even bother to post, had to say:

We can define the universe as everything there is, so in that case there is nothing outside of it. We also say that space and time both started at the Big Bang and therefore there was nothing before it.

Another definition for the universe is the observable universe - which is the part of it that we can technically see. We cannot know what is outside of that (since we can't observe it), but we think that physics works the same everywhere and so we think that it should be very similar to the observable universe. We actually think that the universe might be infinite in extent, and so goes on forever, even though we can only see a finite part of it.

We can speculate in meta-physics or in religion about what was before the Big Bang, but again, we cannot use science to tell anything about it as physics as we understand it breaks down at that point.

3. "Some physicists believe our universe was created by colliding with another, but Kaku [a theoretical physicist at City University of New York] says it also may have sprung from nothing . . . " Scienceline.org

What existed before the Big Bang?

Armed with string theory, Kaku and others speculate that before our Big Bang, there were simply more universes. “Our universe could have either popped into existence or collided with another universe,” he says. Imagine a bubble bath where each bubble represents a universe. In this multiversal tub that existed before our Big Bang—and still exists today—universe bubbles are colliding, popping, budding new bubbles, expanding and contracting. If this scenario really exists, “Big Bangs happen all the time,” says Kaku.

Some physicists believe our universe was created by colliding with another, but Kaku says it also may have sprung from nothing: a completely empty eleven dimensional universe with no spin, no charge and no energy. This seemingly tranquil nothingness universe was actually unstable and some physicists believe that a fluctuation in the vacuum caused our universe to pinch off from its empty existence without time and space to a universe that was large enough to expand. Like a bubble in a bath, our universe had to grow instantaneously in order to survive and escape the collapsing fate of small bubbles.

This “quantum leap” involved four of the dimensions of the empty universe, which now frame the universe we live in. Expanding suddenly, this event sparked the Big Bang and caused the further expansion which created matter and continues to push the galaxies apart today. Meanwhile, the seven remaining dimensions shrunk to an almost inconceivable size, much smaller than an atom.

4. "Even if we don't have a precise idea of exactly what took place at the beginning, we can at least see that the origin of the universe from nothing need not be unlawful or unnatural or unscientific." Paul Davies, physicist, Arizona State University

Yet another treatise on the oddities of quantum physics that Ray clearly does not understand:

Mostly, quantum events occur at the atomic level; we don't experience them in daily life. On the scale of atoms and molecules, the usual commonsense rules of cause and effect are suspended. The rule of law is replaced by a sort of anarchy or chaos, and things happen spontaneously-for no particular reason. Particles of matter may simply pop into existence without warning, and then equally abruptly disappear again. Or a particle in one place may suddenly materialize in another place, or reverse its direction of motion. Again, these are real effects occurring on an atomic scale, and they can be demonstrated experimentally.

A typical quantum process is the decay of a radioactive nucleus. If you ask why a given nucleus decayed at one particular moment rather than some other, there is no answer. The event "just happened" at that moment, that's all. You cannot predict these occurrences. All you can do is give the probability-there is a fifty-fifty chance that a given nucleus will decay in, say, one hour. This uncertainty is not simply a result of our ignorance of all the little forces and influences that try to make the nucleus decay; it is inherent in nature itself, a basic part of quantum reality.
The lesson of quantum physics is this: Something that "just happens" need not actually violate the laws of physics. The abrupt and uncaused appearance of something can occur within the scope of scientific law, once quantum laws have been taken into account. Nature apparently has the capacity for genuine spontaneity.

It is, of course, a big step from the spontaneous and uncaused appearance of a subatomic particle-something that is routinely observed in particle accelerators-to the spontaneous and uncaused appearance of the universe. But the loophole is there. If, as astronomers believe, the primeval universe was compressed to a very small size, then quantum effects must have once been important on a cosmic scale. Even if we don't have a precise idea of exactly what took place at the beginning, we can at least see that the origin of the universe from nothing need not be unlawful or unnatural or unscientific. In short, it need not have been a supernatural event.

5. "Assuming the universe came from nothing, it is empty to begin with . . . Only by the constant action of an agent outside the universe, such as God, could a state of nothingness be maintained. The fact that we have something is just what we would expect if there is no God." Victor J. Stenger, atheist, Prof. Physics, University of Hawaii. Author of, God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist

I can find that quote on Ray's blog, and other Ray related websites, but I can't find it anywhere else, including numerous site devoted to Stenger. This, and the ellipses, make me very suspicious. Oh, and "atheist" is not a title, any more than "Jew" or "Christian" are titles. Unless you are in the habit of introducing people as "Mr. ibn la Ahad, Muslim", don't use "atheist" that way.

6. "Few people are aware of the fact that many modern physicists claim that things --perhaps even the entire universe -- can indeed arise from nothing via natural processes. Creation ex nihilo -- Without God (1997), Atheist, Mark I. Vuletic

Would you like to see what the very next sentence is? This document is an attempt to compile quotes that explain how all of this is supposed to work.

followed by: Eventually, I would like to write an article assessing the value of quantum vacuum fluctuations as a means of producing universes, but for the time being, I will just let the scientists speak for themselves and leave evaluation to the reader.

Again, proof that Ray doesn't understand that quantum physics is a very different thing from the world we interact with every day. Yes, in our world "everything from nothing" seems like a ridiculous proposition. In the world of quantum physics it's business as usual.

7. "To understand these facts we have to turn to science. Where did they all come from, and how did they get so darned outrageous? Well, it all started with nothing." --"Fifty Outrageous Animal Facts," Animal Planet

Animal Planet? srsly?

8. To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing. But to a quantum physicist, nothing is, in fact, something." Discover Magazine "Physics & Math/Cosmology"

I'm surprised Ray didn't include the name of this article: Guth's Grand Guess, by
Brad Lemley.

Start, Guth says, by imagining nothing, a pure vacuum. Be careful. Don't imagine outer space without matter in it. Imagine no space at all and no matter at all. Good luck.

To the average person it might seem obvious that nothing can happen in nothing. But to a quantum physicist, nothing is, in fact, something. Quantum theory holds that probability, not absolutes, rules any physical system. It is impossible, even in principle, to predict the behavior of any single atom; all physicists can do is predict the average properties of a large collection of atoms. Quantum theory also holds that a vacuum, like atoms, is subject to quantum uncertainties. This means that things can materialize out of the vacuum, although they tend to vanish back into it quickly. While this phenomenon has never been observed directly, measurements of the electron's magnetic strength strongly imply that it is real and happening in the vacuum of space even now.

9.* "It is rather fantastic to realize that the laws of physics can describe how everything was created in a random quantum fluctuation out of nothing, and how over the course of 15 billion years, matter could organize in such complex ways that we have human beings sitting here, talking, doing things intentionally." (Alan Harvey Guth theoretical physicist and cosmologist). Discover Magazine, April 1, 2002

From the exact same article as No. 8. Clever, Ray, but you're talking about quotes by the same person in the same article.

And what about the conservation of energy? According to Einstein's theory of relativity, the energy of a gravitational field is negative. The energy of matter, however, is positive. So the entire universe-creation scenario could unfold without breaking conservation-of-energy laws. The positive energy of all matter in the universe could be precisely counterbalanced by the negative energy of all the gravity in the universe.

This also is more than theory. Observations are consistent with the idea, and calculations totaling up all the matter and all the gravity in the observable universe indicate that the two values seem to precisely counterbalance. All matter plus all gravity equals zero. So the universe could come from nothing because it is, fundamentally, nothing.

"It is rather fantastic to realize that the laws of physics can describe how everything was created in a random quantum fluctuation out of nothing, and how over the course of 15 billion years, matter could organize in such complex ways that we have human beings sitting here, talking, doing things intentionally," says Guth, leaning, if possible, even farther forward.

None of those quotes means what Ray thinks they do. You and I understand that Ray is, essentially, a liar. I don't truly believe he is stupid enough to put up those quotes without reading the paragraphs they are in, or the ones immediately preceding and following them. However, for all that Ray clearly doesn't understand quantum physics, he does understand his audience. They don't care what the truth is, as long as their faith is confirmed for them. And if that means quote mining or outright lying on Ray's part, they don't care.

*originally, this post had 10 quotes in it, but two of them were exactly the same. i guess someone pointed it out to Ray and he fixed it.

Dispatches from the Front Lines

evangelical, evangelism, witnessing, witness, bible, jesus, tracts, ray, comfort, wotm,
I have long suspected that the standard form of witnessing as sold by Ray Comfort in his Way of the Master series is a dismal failure. (Ray's evangelism "college" costs $150 to attend, btw. Yeah.)

Now, in these stories straight from believers themselves, I have proof of this failure. (Oddly, the believers do not count these stories as failures. They count them as successes. Apparently, simply getting a total stranger to acknowledge your existence is a win for Jesus.)

the lindaman family:

Well, I did it!!!! Twice! First, my husband and I were at a gas station and I just walked up to this girl and handed her a million dollar bill. She looked at me like I just fell off of Mars, but she took it. Second, I was at another gas station, which was full service. I didn't realize it was full service, but God did. The guy walked up to my van, pumped my gas, and when he was done I got to give him a million dollar bill. When I pulled away he was reading it! I can't even tell you how excited it made me. Thanks again for what you do!

1) I believe the expression is "landed from Mars" or "came here from Mars".
2) That's probably the look on my face when people randomly hand me trash to throw away.
3) How was that a success? Basic politeness would make her accept the trash even if she didn't want it.
4) "I didn't realize it was full service, but God did"?! wtf? seriously?
5) Again, how was this a success? The gas station attendant read the trash you handed him. So what?

deanna:

I am very shy, and would never have dreamed I could witness. I have been encouraged by listening to The Way of the Master to start sharing my faith. I now give out million dollar bills when I go to Walmart or the grocery store. God can use even shy people!

at least i don't go to that walmart. i don't like scaring shy people. (apparently she's too shy even for an informative profile.)

danagirl47:

I'm like the friend you described. I am totally itching to share my faith, but I'm so shy I just don't know how. So I usually end up feeling guilty because Christ gave His life for me and I can't even bring myself to talk about it. So I took you up on your challenge last week, and on my very last day I finally made sure I actually had a tract with me and gave it to the K-Mart cashier. It was totally awkward because I didn't really know what to say, but I'm still glad I did it. Thanks for the challenge. Would love some prayer. :)

nothing like involving yourself in an awkward social situation for your faith. still no successes. (and i'd like to hear the story from the cashier's point of view.)

ricardo:

Hola! I work for a Messianic Jewish ministry in San Francisco, CA (I'm a gentile). I've never had the guts to pass out Bible tracts, but after watching the news a couple of weeks ago and seeing Christians get chased out of the Castro District for simply praying, when one of the evangelists on staff asked me the other day if I would help pass out Bible tracts in Union Square I couldn't resist! I stood on the corner for a couple of hours passing out tracts and struck up a great conversation with a really nice elderly Jewish woman. Her and her daughter passed me by at first, but I noticed her take a second look at my shirt which simply says "Y'shua" across the chest. I continued to pass out tracts and I noticed the women looking back at me from about 30 yards away and talking with each other. After a couple of minutes the elderly woman approached me and asked, "Are you here to convert the Jews or the Goyim?" I told her I was here to tell about Y'shua. She asked me the same question again. I told her "I'm not here to convert anyone, I'm here to get to people to consider the facts and make an educated decision as to whether or not Y'shua is the Messiah the Hebrew prophets fortold." Again, she asked me the same question a third time. I said, "Look Miss, I'm here to tell both Jews and Gentiles alike that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob chose the children of Israel to have a special relationship with, and through that special, unique relationship with Israel, God would introduce Himself to the world and all of mankind would be blessed. I'm here to get you to consider whether or not Y'shua is that blessing, through whom God manifested Himself in human form and makes salvation possible for all of mankind." With that she said, "Hmmm. Ok. Let me have one of those." I gave her one, we talked, and shared a laugh. I wish I could say she asked the Lord for forgiveness, but she promised to read the tract and look into it. God's at work! I love your site; many blessings!

Jews for Jesus! Except that he's not a Jew. I love how he couldn't answer the old lady's question. What does the bible say about honesty? something . . . I forget. anyway, still no successes.

Joe Byrd:

Trish-I just read your Challenge blog--Let me tell you something I do ---I go with my wife to Wal-mart and , go loaded down with Living Waters tracts.. I start handing them out with ""The Greeter", but I don't make myself too obvious because--I'm on a mission. While she shops ,I stroll thru the book section and I start browsing through all the magazines and paperbacks, -but before I put one one down and pick the other up I stick a tract securely inside it. When I'm finished with that task, I go to the card section and place a track in front of a few cards . It looks just like a card-----------------I've done this many times ---They work all week long for you. I've done many different things and I get so many good ideas from you and WOTM. I've shared one-on-one many times and You know what? I've never had anyone rude to me when I do the good person test. I did have a lady put her hands over her ears because she was so convicted. I've still yet to open air but am very close.

Thank you for your conviction and dedication in witnessing to the lost.

Joe

He's on a mission- from god. I love the sneakiness here. He can't just hand tracts to people, he hides them in books and shelves. (I suppose I might appreciate the free bookmark if I found a tract in my book, but it wouldn't convert me.)

and, what exactly does "they work all week long for you" mean, anyway? work how? it sounds like an ad for an internet sales scheme.

I have to say, I see people selling things in front of Walmart all the time- cookies, candy, etc. They do very well. So why is Jesus such a hard sell? And why do these people take such pride, such joy in engaging in an activity that doesn't seem to work? Most people abandon a losing strategy- these people embrace it.

Violating the Law of Gravity

ray, comfort, atheism, atheist, gravity, religion, jesus, god, bible, witnessing, evangelism, christian,

I have no problem with ignorance. I myself am ignorant on a large number of subjects. In fact, it would be fair to say that I am ignorant about more things than I am knowledgeable about. Most people are.

Normally, if I found an adult who had access to libraries and the internet who did not understand the law of gravity, I would simply feel sorry for them. Since Ray Comfort is, well, Ray Comfort, I have no sympathy. This is the man who makes a living, a very good living, mocking and demonizing atheists. This man has done more to spread hatred and bigotry towards atheists than anyone I can think of.

In The straw man that broke the camel's back, Ray displays his appalling lack of understanding of a subject infants are capable of understanding.

If a man jumps out of a plane and falls 10,000 feet to his death because he neglected to put on a parachute, he died primarily because he violated the law of gravity. Had he put on a parachute he could have been saved from its unforgiving consequences, but again, he died because he violated the law of gravity.

Actually, jumping out of a plane and then falling 10,000 feet to your death is an example of obeying the law of gravity. Jumping out of a plane and then floating there, or flying up into space would be examples of violating the law of gravity.

Of course, I called Ray on this, with my first comment, It is impossible to violate the law of gravity.

I expected Ray to respond with "You're missing my point" or "I misspoke, but you know what I meant" or something along those lines. No, he defends the ridiculous assertion that falling towards the earth is a violation of the law of gravity. (See picture above.)

PersonalFailure said... It is not possible to violate the law of gravity."

PersonalFailure...tell that to yourself the next time you fall off a cliff. :)

Again, he gives an example that demonstrates obeying the law of gravity as an example of violating it. Unbelievable.

I'm not saying that one need be educated in all subjects to speak to one, and if Ray spoke only to the tenets of his own religion, I'd leave it at that. But Ray frequently pushes creationist ideas and mocks actual science to prove his religious claims. It is insane that Ray's followers pay him millions of dollars a year to learn pseudoscience from a man that doesn't understand the basics of gravity.

Gravity!

edit: In the interim, Ray has changed the post to read The second fallacy is the phrase "failed to trust in Jesus." If a man jumps out of a plane and falls 10,000 feet to his death because he neglected to put on a parachute, he died primarily because he neglected the law of gravity. Had he put on a parachute he could have been saved from its unforgiving consequences, but again, he died because he ignored the law of gravity.

That's still idiotic, though less so. One cannot neglect, nor can one ignore, the law of gravity. That would be like neglecting the mass energy equivalence (e=mc2) or ignoring the second law of thermodynamics.

Missing the Point

proof, ray, comfort, religion, god, jesus, atheism, atheist, christian, christianity, witness, evangelism,
It's the atheist anthem: Proof, give me proof!

The believer's response is always the same: Faith, I've got faith!

We can see this play out in Ray Comfort's latest post, wherein he responds to a request for proof with the same insult twice and a plea to faith. That is missing the point.

"God is not based upon observable, testable evidence. He is based upon faith. With God we are unable to make predictions and test them to see if they are correct." Rabbitpirate Reasonable request, Rabbitpirate. If I assert that I have a magical bowling ball that, when let go, rises up rather than falling down, (rendering it useless for bowling) everyone, including Ray, would demand proof of this. If I failed to produce this proof, everyone, including Ray, would reasonably conclude that I do not have such a bowling bowl.

So why doesn't god fall into the same category as my magical bowling ball?

That is not true. Creation is "observable" evidence of the existence of God to all but a fool (not my words--See Psalm 14:1). Oh, yes, Psalm 14:1, The fool has said in his heart there is no god. (That one I've got memorized.) I do love a good insult, Ray, but your magic book written by your invisible friend isn't proof of anything*, nor is creation proof of the creator. God is not "based upon faith." Such a thought is ridiculous. His existence or non-existence has nothing to do with whether or not I have faith. i'll grant you that. proof of god certainly does seem to be based on faith, however. As with human relationships, the means of exchange between God and Mankind is based on trust (faith). trust and faith are not the same things. also, i can prove that the humans i am involved in various relationships with are real. you can meet them, see them, hear them, smell them, etc. we cannot say the same for god.

Anyone can make the prediction that God will manifest Himself to them, and then they can test the prediction to see if it is valid. that's true. it also disproves god, because lots of people have been foretelling the second coming of jesus for quite some time, and nobody's seen him yet. (the jehovah's witnesses claim he did, but it was invisible, which doesn't really count.) There are two stipulations when coming to God. which has what to do with proof of god? First, you must believe that He exists. so, in order to get proof that god exists, i first must believe that god exists? sure, you can see the tiny pink unicorns in my basement- but only if you first stipulate that you have already seen the tiny pink unicorns in my basement. That makes sense. no, it doesn't. Why would anyone come to God if they didn't believe He existed. headdesk Again, in the light of creation, such a person would be a fool. that's probably a record for Ray, calling atheists fools twice in three paragraphs. And the second stipulation is that we have a humble heart. betcha this sets up the "atheists are too proud for god, they want to be god" line. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. blessed are the meek, Ray. If you are a proud person, you have already cut yourself off from God by your sins. score! However, all those who humble themselves, repent, and trust in Jesus Christ come to know Him who is "life eternal." It's that simple. circular reasoning is always simple, Ray, that doesn't make it logical or provide me with proof.

Proof fail.

*I love how Ray attempts to hide behind the excuse of "Well, it's not like I said it" when insulting atheists en masse. Here's a clue, Ray, if you tell your wife that other people have said she's fat and ugly, but it's not you that's saying that, it's other people, she's not going to be any less angry at you.

I'm Completely Irrational!

ray, comfort, religion, jesus, god, bible, psalm, colossians, romans, atheism, atheist, asshat,
Because I'm an atheist. All that stuff about logic and reasoning? It's a cover for my complete inability to form a coherent thought.

Mind you, this comes from Ray Comfort.

It's not my ultimate goal to convert anyone to theism. you coulda fooled me, Ray! This is because I am convinced that all sane humanity is theistic to some degree. ergo, i'm insane. chances are, so are you. (unless you're one of my pagan readers, in which case Ray apparently supports your choice.) The existence of creation tells a rational mind that there is a Creator (Romans 1:20*). again Ray embraces the circular argument that god exists because the bible says so, and the bible is true because it was written by god, and we know god exists because, yeah, you know. Argument over. from the Bush school of winning, I see. The alternative is to become a fool name calling: what you do when you run out of arguments. and believe that there was no Creator and what surrounds us isn't a "creation." and now we're arguing semantics. Ray wins the Most Logical Fallacies in One Paragraph Award.

Watch in wonder as Ray makes the most ridiculous analogy of all time:

Here's your dilemma. You are standing on the edge of a plane the edge of a plane?, 10,000 feet in the air. I scream to you amidst the noise amidst the noise? this man has written at least 30 books, mind you to put your parachute on. Your comeback is that you don't believe that the plane you are standing on could have had a maker. wtf does that have to do with anything? and why do i have to put on a parachute? is the plane going down? am I skydiving? But my goal isn't to have you acknowledge that the plane was made, but that you put on the parachute that's being offered to you (see Romans 13:14**).

in other words, even if you don't believe there is a god, you should start worshipping him right away to avoid hell. does Ray really need me to explain everything that is wrong with that statement?

How can I convince you to do that? it would help to convince me that god exists, first. unless you think worshipping the nonexistent makes sense. I can show you how you have violated the moral Law. no, you really can't. you'd have to show me the "moral law" was anything more than the standard rules of behavior every civilization embraces. Go through the Sermon on the Mount and examine your life in the light of "Whoever looks upon a woman to lust for her has committed adultery in his heart."

Full stop, Ray. You brought up the Sermon on the Mount, so now it's fair game. Let's take a look at a few other things that came up in the Sermon on the Mount.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

"The law" Jesus was talking about? Jewish law, that includes such rules as never eating shellfish and not wearing clothes made of two types of fabric. What do you want to bet Ray breaks these laws all the time? In fact, he may very well be doing it right now. I am.

Think about how God is moral perfection prove that and how He sees your thought-life. my "thought-life"? essentially we've always been living in a considerably scarier version of 1984? well, I am just SO SCREWED. and fantasizing about that right now. in fact, I may as well just go do what I've been fantasizing about, if I'm going to be punished for random thoughts I cannot possibly control. Consider the Law that you must face we still haven't proven the law, god or the punishment!--a law that is far harsher than the unforgiving law of gravity from 10,000 feet. which i guess is different than the law of gravity from 5,000 feet?

Consider how you could "jump" today. wait, is this jumping with or without the parachute? Approximately 150,000 people will die in the next 24 hours. and they're all going to hell! You could be one of them. live life today, for tomorrow . . . You have no guarantee of tomorrow. Imagine if God lost patience with you and your godless beliefs. ummm . . . death is the punishment for sin? heaven must be a very lonely place. I'm appealing to your God-given fear. sigh. It's your friend, not your enemy. give in to irrationality and pretend to believe in order to pacify the sadistic skydaddy! Open the Bible, and make Psalm 51 your prayer. really? psalm 51:19 Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar. Please, think about your sins, you already got me started, Ray, it's all I'll be able to think about now. think about the cross. Jesus took your punishment upon Himself so your case could be dismissed. because punishing a completely innocent bystander for someone else's crimes is justice!

I have said it many times that the issue with the skeptic (or the "believer" who refuses to be obedient obey Ray!) is moral, not intellectual. whatever you do, don't think about it! wait, who's irrational? We don't need convincing of God's existence we who?, we need convincing of our terrible danger. on the edge of the plane . . . or something I care enough to warn you. well, i feel all warm and fuzzy inside. See Colossians 1:28***.

*Romans 1:20- For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

**Romans 13:14- But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

***Colosssians 1:28- Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Cancer Is God's Smackdown

cancer, ray, comfort, religion, christian, religion, christianity, evangelism, wotm, living waters

Ray Comfort, evangelist extraordinaire, believes that cancer is god's punishment and that people with cancer should never, ever so much as see a doctor, let alone get treatment. Even taking medicine for the pain is an insult to god.

I am not making this up.

Ray wrote a book, More Than Just Comfort- An Answer to Cancer, still available for $25.00 Canadian, in which he states

“Therefore you should never take medicine to relieve pain. You should never consult a doctor or go to a hospital for treatment, because you would be interfering with the work of God in your life. If Cancer is the chastening tool of God, then doctors who are fighting cancer are fighting against the work of God. If a preacher or a Christian believes the sickness is a means of chastening, then he should never pray for relief from the sickness, but rather pray that the cancer will continue to grow until the chastening is completed”.

Yeah, you read that right. Even praying to god for relief is forbidden.

What do you suppose happened to people who took this advice? I think you know. Anyone who took that advice died a horrible, painful, preventable death.

The reason I held back on this post was because the book was published in the late 70s. It was entirely possible that Ray had changed his stance on treating cancer, especially in light of the many advances that have been made in the field of cancer treatment. Then I discovered that the book was still for sale, though not in the US.

Yet I still didn't know if Ray actually believed, 30 years later, that cancer is god's punishment and one shouldn't seek treatment. The answer to that question would be yes.

In the comments to Ray's post, Angry About Nothing, Punjab calls Ray on this:

Ray... I don't know what Iago is referring to, but here's a quote from your "book" More Than Just Comfort... An Answer to Cancer

“Therefore you should never take medicine to relieve pain. You should never consult a doctor or go to a hospital for treatment, because you would be interfering with the work of God in your life. If Cancer is the chastening tool of God, then doctors who are fighting cancer are fighting against the work of God. If a preacher or a Christian believes the sickness is a means of chastening, then he should never pray for relief from the sickness, but rather pray that the cancer will continue to grow until the chastening is completed”.

I don't know if you'll post this, as it makes you look more ridiculous than usual, but I was wondering why you would go against your own beliefs and see a doctor.

Ray actually responds to this with:

Iago ..."if a preacher or a Christian sees sickness as a mewans of chastening..."It seems that you don't know what "chastening" means. It means punishment by God. Best wishes.

You'll notice, Ray doesn't deny believing that cancer is god's punishment, nor does he deny believing that people suffering from cancer should not seek treatment. He doesn't repudiate the stance taken in the book he is still selling.

Ray Comfort thinks that if you have cancer, you should die a horrible death, a preventable death.

Ray Comfort is a very bad man.

When Do I Get to Start Scamming People

ray, comfort, way of the master, wotm, bible, religion, evangelism, witness, stupid, jesus,
and calling it salvation?

I talk a lot about Ray Comfort, and about half the reactions I get are "meh- he's stupid, so what?"

He's wildly popular, that's what. Millions of people are paying for his School of Biblical Evangelism (on sale now for $75!), and then using that advice to spread ignorance and bigotry.

This is a sample of the wisdom of Ray Comfort:

If you are familiar with the first law of thermodynamics, then you should be familiar with the second law. It says tells us that it is scientifically impossible for the universe to be eternal. Everything degenerates. Leave an apple on a table for a few weeks and it will rot.

Rotting apples have NOTHING to do with the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Nothing. At. All.

So, other than ridiculous analogies involving rotting apples and the SLT, what does one get for $75?

101 Online Lessons
over 45 Audio Lessons
50 Cartoon Kids Lessons
a student community forum

Plus!
The Way of the Master (book)
Out of the Comfort Zone (book)
Hell's Best Kept Secret (cd)
True and False Conversion (cd)

And when you graduate ...
Bonded Leather Evidence Bible
A Quality Graduation Certificate

So, ignorance, ignorance, ignorance for kids, communal ignorance, book ignorance, book ignorance, cd ignorance, cd ignorance, a fancy book and . . . a Quality Graduation Certificate.

Please, someone help me, what the fuck is a "quality" graduation certificate? Anyone?

When do I get to make millions selling ignorance? Oh, right, when I give up those annoying morals and ethics. Always in the way.

Stop Thinking of Them as People

atheism, atheist, witness, evangelism, testimony, proselytizing, work, scripture,bible, jesus, ray, comfort
Unless you're new here (hi! stay a while), you know I find Ray Comfort endlessly disturbing. It's the combination of his smarmy self righteousness, his willful stupidity, and the fact that he is the evangelical's evangelist. Seriously, go to a christian message board and ask how to proselytize (you should call it "witnessing"), and 10 out of the 10 replies you receive will all reference the Way of the Master and Living Waters- Ray Comfort.

Which is what makes ideas like the one below so disturbing- lots of people are taking this advice. Lots of people see this as good advice.

How should I witness to my coworkers? short answer? you shouldn't. you're getting paid to work, for one thing. for another, it can lead your employer into legal trouble.

When we interact with people on a daily basis, we have many opportunities for sharing our faith. tell me about it. First, be sure you are respectful to your employer and set a good example in your work ethic by working "as to the Lord" (Colossians 3:23).When others around you grumble and complain, if you have a calm, forgiving, steadfast spirit, it will make an impression. probably as that guy that doesn't like to play along, and would rather kiss ass instead*, but whatever. As you respond in a Christ-like way to angry coworkers ummm . . . unsaved coworkers are naturally angry or something? crabby atheist stereotype? i dunno. and stressful circumstances, people will see a difference in your life.

Always be friendly and courteous, and show genuine interest in your coworkers’ lives. Invite them out to lunch to get better acquainted. Share their joys and sorrows by congratulating them in their good times and offering to pray for them in their bad times.

this is where the advice gets bad. Think about this for a second. If a coworker of mine showed this kind of interest in me, I would assume (a) they had a sexual interest in me, or (b) they wanted to be my friend. Not that I want my coworkers to constantly be fantasizing about me, but I would be horribly offended at this tactic. Think about it. Ray Comfort is encouraging people to treat other human beings not as people, but as marks. As targets. As means to an end.

Would this be acceptable if the product being sold were Amway rather than salvation? Beyond that, should people really need this kind of primer on how to relate to other people? Atheists are just like theists, guys. We have feelings, hopes, dreams, disappointments. We feel joy and pain, love and rejection, and you shouldn't need to be told to congratulate me in good times and comfort me in bad**. If you do need to be told that, well, I don't know what help I can offer you.

Be sure you do pray for them, then follow up by asking them about the situation you prayed for. Well, yeah, followup on people's problems does show you're interested.They will be moved by your concern. No more so than anyone else's sincere concern. If coworkers are discussing what they did during the previous weekend, you can share your excitement about attending church services or a special church event. and become that guy we never talk about off time with. Ask others if they have any plans for celebrating Christmas or Easter sweet Salvador Dali, I've worked with these people; be nonjudgmental of their answer, but be ready (if asked) to explain why you celebrate as you do. nobody is going to ask. we live in a country dominated by christians, we all know why you're celebrating that way. unless you're a Jehovah's Witness, in which case we think you're a freak show.

Displaying a favorite Scripture or a devotional calendar, or reading your Bible during lunchtime, may prompt others to inquire about your faith. it would prompt me to avoid you, but you can try that Bringing home-baked goods or leaving a small gift with a note on a coworker’s desk can sometimes have a greater impact than a thousand eloquent sermons. not when the price of that cookie is a really annoying spiel. We can show our faith by our works. Others may not like a tree of self righteousness, but they cannot help but like its fruit. I can. Pray for opportunities to share the gospel, being careful not to infringe on your boss’s time. "For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men." (1 Peter 2:15)

Of course Ray couldn't avoid a chance to call atheists "fools".

*tell me you've never felt that way about a coworker that won't join in the occasional bash-the-boss session. it's called a "bonding experience", people.

**A sincerely offered "I'll pray for you" in response to something bad in my life is not offensive to me. I understand the intent behind it and appreciate that you are thinking of me, and you care.

The Closest I'll Get

slacktivist, evangelical, evangelism, witness, christian, christianity, atheism, atheist, ray, comfort, fundy, jesus,
You know who gets me the closest to being Christian? Not because I believe or anything, but because I want to be more like him?

The Slacktivist.

I mention this because immediately after letting through a comment from a very angry Christian about my "post modernism*" and "intollerance" [sic], I read the Slactivist's latest post.

Ray Comfort and his cohorts stay up at night to think of new ways to insult and denigrate atheists, while the Slacktivist evangelizes with wit, wisdom and ultimately, kindness. The Slacktivist is, and you only need to read one post to see this, truly a good man. He truly cares for the homeless, the poor, the sick, the lonely. I imagine that if the Slacktivist were given three wishes, not a one of them would be selfish. He really would wish for world peace, and end to hunger, an end to disease.**

The Slacktivist is exactly what I imagined Jesus to be back when I believed.

Why do I mention this? Because his latest post is about exactly the form of evangelism Ray and others like him practice.

If you're worried about making friends then you'll wind up more concerned with what others think of you than you are with your duty and you won't be as single-mindedly focused as you need to be in witnessing at them. And let's face it, if you're at all concerned about how others perceive you, then you'll never find the courage to be as off-putting as this duty requires you to be. Treating others as friends, real or potential, involves treating them as subjects rather than how you ought to be treating them -- as objects of your evangelism. So stop acting like you're in some kind of popularity contest and get busy proving that you're not ashamed of the gospel.

That's not the most charitable paraphrase of this stock sermon, but it's accurate.

And anyway I'm not inclined to view this particular sermon charitably. It's pointless and ineffective, for one thing. It doesn't work. The poor souls subjected to some variation of this lecture week after week do not go forth to boldy proclaim the gospel in the way the speaker describes. And that's probably a good thing, too, since if they did that wouldn't work. It encourages a form -- and a spirit -- of evangelism that is far more likely to repel than to attract. It offers no motivation other than guilt, and guilt is just a lousy, lousy motivator. Anything we do because of guilt we do, by definition, begrudgingly. There are very few things one can do begrudgingly and still do well. Guilt also tends to produce a self-defensive resentment of those who provoke or remind us of it. You can see that dynamic in the hostility some people display toward the homeless. This sermon sometimes prompts a similar guiltily hostile form of evangelism.

Hostility and evangelism don't mix well.

Yeah, Slacktivist, I've noticed.

Anyway, since I apparently can't convince the fundys that calling me a fool, and railing about my post modernism and intollerance [sic], is very unlikely to convert me, maybe the words of an evangelical Christian will help.

*What is post modernism in this context? I can never tell.

**I would wish for myself not to be sick anymore, to be beautiful and for the Eagles to win the next Superbowl. Not necessarily in that order.

It Wasn't So Much the Post . . .

vera, doug, ray, comfort, religion, atheism, atheist, christian, christianity, witness, evangelical, evangelism, jesus, god, bible,
Ray Comfort is back from New Zealand, and his Raytards(tm) are back from . . . well, wherever it is they go when they're not making the world's most ludricrous comments. (I suspect insane asylums, or John Birch Society meetings.)

Ray's most recent post is nowhere near as amusing as the comments of some of his Raytards(tm), but I don't have room for all of them, so we'll confine ourselves to examining the work of Vera, of VeraandDoug.

This all begins with a comment by Steven J, he of the patience of 20, nay, 100 men.

Ray, you don't argue as though you're seriously trying to persuade us. You gratuitously insult us in petty ways, which is not normally considered an optimum approach for winning hearts and minds. But of course, that you insult us does not show that you're wrong.

Vera responds with:

Steven

Jesus offended people, Steven. (gratuitous overuse of a person's name is never a good sign.)In fact, I was thinking about that the other day. really? wow. The question was asked, "If Jesus were standing here, how would you react?" most christians would say how happy they would be by meeting their savior, but vera takes a slightly different tack. I was thinking that I probably would be offended by some of the things He might say such as my saying, "I'm going to first go bury my parents." what situation does she imagine her savior walking into? He says, "Let the dead bury their own dead." is jesus referencing zombies, or am i not reading this right? if the messiah is referencing zombies, maybe someone should clue him in to the fact that zombies are rarely ever known for burying the dead. eating the dead, yes. Or how about insinuating that I'm a dog. wtf?! Would I have the faith to say, "Yes, but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the Master's table." okay, I do know the verse here, but . . . oh forget it. The Bible says that the preaching of the gospel is an offense and foolishness to those who are perishing. wait for it . . . There isn't any way to rectify that because sin is the problem and sin has to be repented of. yup, vera just said right out that evangelism (Ray's stock and trade) is entirely pointless. will that stop her? of course not! There will never be a compromise on this....ever.

Vera then attempts to debate Steven J on evolution, which is a really good way to make yourself look stupid. And moving on:

Steven J (to Ray) You're self-indulgent, careless, and lazy in your arguments.

That wasn't very nice to say. You just said Jesus was offensive to people, Vera. Apparently, Steven J was just being Christlike. Is that not exactly what you claim that Ray does. Perhaps you are personifying your own faults onto Ray. People have a tendency to do this. Says the woman who regularly calls atheists "hateful sinners".

Steven J.: You can't count on everyone in your audience being as impressed by those traits as, say, Terry Burton is. If you're really trying to persuade us, then you ought to try much harder to actually understand the ideas you argue against. And if you're not trying to persuade us, assuming that it's entirely up to us (and not at all dependent on the arguments and evidence you produce) whether we believe you, then it's hard to see what connection your posting and preaching has to your alleged concern for us. I am terribly confused by this as well. Ray has to know, HAS TO KNOW, that this isn't working. I spent an entire day on his site reading posts and comments (do not try that at home, kids) and have yet to see one conversion. And you just know that if somebody did convert due to Ray's website, there'd be a freakin' parade. So, why does Ray do this?

There will never be a conciliation between us in that way. Then Why. Fucking. Bother. and Leave. Us. Alone. and Shut. The. Fuck. Up. We know that God created the heavens and the earth. good for you- what does that have to do with anything? More information is coming in every day to show how He did it. what information? All of it points to the biblical account. no, it doesn't, just ask Stev- oh, never mind. We know God because He set us free from sin. That's amazingly circular. And I bet you still sin. What about you? I don't think you have any idea what freedom is, but whatever. Vera

See, it's not just Ray that's good for a few laughs.

The Atheist's Nightmare

bananas, atheism, atheist, conversion, fail, ray, comfort, kirk, cameron, religion, jesus, christian,
This is the perfectly-designed banana Ray Comfort keeps going on about. Fail!

What Really Happened in the Garden of Eden

garden, eden, adam, eve, justice, genesis, bible, ray, comfort, god, yhwh, humor
Ray Comfort's latest post brings up the standard fundamentalist explanation for death, suffering, disease and the general uncomfortableness of life: it's your fault. Oh, it's my fault, too, well, it's really Adam and Eve's fault, and, yeah, let's let Ray explain it:

When God made Adam and Eve He made them perfect. There was no disease, suffering, pain and death. When they rebelled against Him, He cursed them and the earth, and we now live in what is commonly called a "fallen creation."

See, Yhwh put a tree in the center of the Garden of Eden, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Actually, it was two trees. He also put the Tree of Life in the center of Garden of Eden. Now, being omnipotent, if he didn't want anyone to eat of the fruit of either of those Trees, he could have put them outside of the Garden of Eden, or put them on top of a mountain, or put a fence around them, but no, he just leaves the Trees right there where anyone can get at them.

Then, Yhwh puts two people, two completely innocent people, who have been alive all of one day, who have no concept of right or wrong, who have never seen or heard of death, in the Garden with the Trees. The Trees he didn't want these two people to touch. Then he told them they would die if they ate the fruit.

Did I mention Yhwh is supposed to be omniscient?

Yhwh: You can eat anything you want, but don't eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Eve: Why not?

Yhwh: Because I'll fjwuieruthf you if you do.

Adam: What?

Yhwh: I will fjwuieruthf you if you eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

*Adam and Eve look at one another*

Eve: Ummm . . . what's fjwuieruthf?

Yhwh: You know, I'll fjwuieruthf you if you do it.

Eve (to Adam): You've been around twice as long as me, what's fjwuieruthf?

Adam (shrugs): I dunno. Maybe it's one of those furry things I haven't named yet?

Yhwh: Look, you eat that fruit and I'll fjwuieruthf you! End of discussion.

Eve: That fruit looks pretty tasty. What do you call it again?

Adam: Snorg.

Eve: Snorg? Really? Are you sure you don't like apple better?

Adam: What's wrong with snorg?

Eve: I let you have platypus.

Adam: I guess apple's okay.

Eve: Well, that apple looks pretty tasty, and we don't know that fjwuieruthf is bad. Maybe it's not bad at all.

Yhwh: I can assure you that fjwuieruthf is very bad. Very, very bad.

Adam: Yeah, but what is it?

Eve: Maybe you could fjwuieruthf something else in the Garden and then we could decide if fjwuieruthf is bad enough to make us not try the apple.

Yhwh: I can't fjwuieruthf anything! This is the Garden of Eden, nothing ever fjwuieruthfs!

Adam: So, wait, will you or won't you fjwuieruthf us? We're in the Garden. Why can we be fjwuieruthfed?

Eve: Screw this, I'm eating the apple.

There you have it, the fundamentalist version of justice.

The Dangers of Comfort

ray, comfort, evangelism, evangelical, witness, christian, jesus, god, bible, meyers, pharyngula

I have recently seen two examples of the danger of Ray Comfort and his antiatheist propaganda.



From a Comfort post unironically titled Atheist Pope, we get this comment from Its ALL About JESUS!!! (one grammatical error, two random capitalizations, and one instance exclamation point abuse in the screen name alone):



Dear 'Atheist Pope', I really got a good laugh when you said "you are aware that us atheists are generally more compassionate than Christians "



Sorry, I don't buy it. I've had too much experience with atheists in life and seen the death, and destruction they bring.



What am I talking about? I'm talking about atheists who KILL unborn babies, start bloody wars, ignore the starving, and take advantage of the poor.



I see disrespectful people who slander good Christian people, and run God's Holy Bible thru the mud. Your hearts are corrupt, and there is nothing good in you. You put on a good pretense but the core of your group is deceitful, hateful, and you are jealous of God's people. Turn away from your sins while you still can atheist!



Jesus Christ is the answer to your eternal salvation, not a curse word on your lips. Praying for you!



Psalm 14



For the director of music.



Of David.



1 The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.



Can you feel it? The hate, just dripping off your screen? He despises me, and maybe you, and every other atheist/nonchristian on the planet. Hates us. With a white hot fury. And Ray just eggs him on. This asshat doesn't know me, or you, or any other atheist, for that matter, but he doesn't have to, does he? He can just go to Ray for confirmation of his hatred of people who dance only in Ray Comfort's mind*.



This may not seem so bad to you, this faceless screen name hating complete strangers, but it leads to what happened to PZ Meyers recently.



First, PZ gets this charming email:



I saw your criticism of Ray Comfort on Worldnetdaily.com. I believe exactly as Ray Comfort believes and when you call him an idiot and stupid, you're calling me an idiot and stupid.


I'd like nothing more than to break every tooth out of your head, one by one; then poke your fucking eyeballs out and shove them straight-up your tightly-puckered asshole.


Go fuck yourself, pinhead jerk.


James M. BakerIndianapolis, Indiana



Well, that's just . . . rude. It didn't stop there, however.



[James Baker] has sent me a few other emails (which I just trashed on sight), and now someone at the IP address 67.177.100.132 (which traces back to Shelbyville…Hi, Jim!) has attempted to subscribe me to a large body of gay and fetish porn. Who knew there were sites dedicated to just pictures of young boys' feet?



You know as well as I do that for some people it's no great distance from threatening emails and (attempted) abusive porning to a real life violent act. And Ray Comfort just eggs them on. To Ray Comfort, this is all fun and games.



Lecture me some more about morality, Ray.



*hat tip to Fannie!