Monday, May 4, 2009

Missing the Point

proof, ray, comfort, religion, god, jesus, atheism, atheist, christian, christianity, witness, evangelism,
It's the atheist anthem: Proof, give me proof!

The believer's response is always the same: Faith, I've got faith!

We can see this play out in Ray Comfort's latest post, wherein he responds to a request for proof with the same insult twice and a plea to faith. That is missing the point.

"God is not based upon observable, testable evidence. He is based upon faith. With God we are unable to make predictions and test them to see if they are correct." Rabbitpirate Reasonable request, Rabbitpirate. If I assert that I have a magical bowling ball that, when let go, rises up rather than falling down, (rendering it useless for bowling) everyone, including Ray, would demand proof of this. If I failed to produce this proof, everyone, including Ray, would reasonably conclude that I do not have such a bowling bowl.

So why doesn't god fall into the same category as my magical bowling ball?

That is not true. Creation is "observable" evidence of the existence of God to all but a fool (not my words--See Psalm 14:1). Oh, yes, Psalm 14:1, The fool has said in his heart there is no god. (That one I've got memorized.) I do love a good insult, Ray, but your magic book written by your invisible friend isn't proof of anything*, nor is creation proof of the creator. God is not "based upon faith." Such a thought is ridiculous. His existence or non-existence has nothing to do with whether or not I have faith. i'll grant you that. proof of god certainly does seem to be based on faith, however. As with human relationships, the means of exchange between God and Mankind is based on trust (faith). trust and faith are not the same things. also, i can prove that the humans i am involved in various relationships with are real. you can meet them, see them, hear them, smell them, etc. we cannot say the same for god.

Anyone can make the prediction that God will manifest Himself to them, and then they can test the prediction to see if it is valid. that's true. it also disproves god, because lots of people have been foretelling the second coming of jesus for quite some time, and nobody's seen him yet. (the jehovah's witnesses claim he did, but it was invisible, which doesn't really count.) There are two stipulations when coming to God. which has what to do with proof of god? First, you must believe that He exists. so, in order to get proof that god exists, i first must believe that god exists? sure, you can see the tiny pink unicorns in my basement- but only if you first stipulate that you have already seen the tiny pink unicorns in my basement. That makes sense. no, it doesn't. Why would anyone come to God if they didn't believe He existed. headdesk Again, in the light of creation, such a person would be a fool. that's probably a record for Ray, calling atheists fools twice in three paragraphs. And the second stipulation is that we have a humble heart. betcha this sets up the "atheists are too proud for god, they want to be god" line. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. blessed are the meek, Ray. If you are a proud person, you have already cut yourself off from God by your sins. score! However, all those who humble themselves, repent, and trust in Jesus Christ come to know Him who is "life eternal." It's that simple. circular reasoning is always simple, Ray, that doesn't make it logical or provide me with proof.

Proof fail.

*I love how Ray attempts to hide behind the excuse of "Well, it's not like I said it" when insulting atheists en masse. Here's a clue, Ray, if you tell your wife that other people have said she's fat and ugly, but it's not you that's saying that, it's other people, she's not going to be any less angry at you.


  1. "nor is creation proof of the creator"

    Only once in 15 billion years, give or take, has something, no, everything popped into existence out of nothing. I suppose it could happen. Not according to science mind you, but according to atheists it could happen.

  2. sigh.
    Ray makes me tired.

    also, isn't he divorced? (i know, thats *also* not the point lol)

  3. Only once in 15 billion years, give or take, has something, no, everything popped into existence out of nothing.

    No, that is not what is thought to have happened. Everything, as in mass and energy, was compacted into a singularity. Around 13.5 to 14 billion years ago, something happened. No one knows what happened, because time didn't exist until it happened. Whatever happened at that point the singularity expanded rapidly. That is when space/time began. That was everything from everything. Where everything came from, I don't know.

    There are lots of good ideas of where everything came from and what started it all but there is really no way to test it all at this time.

    I suppose it could happen. Not according to science mind you, but according to atheists it could happen.It happened. Science explains it just fine. If it happened then it is explainable by science. I drew five cards from a deck of cards, I got the 2H 5C KH JD 2S. I shuffle those back in and draw again. I drew this time the 10S JS QS KS AS. Which hand did I have the better chance to draw?

    The answer is I had the same chance to draw either hand. The chances are phenomenal to draw either one it is incredible I even drew it, nay it is a miracle or not. You wouldn't think the first hand was, but that is because Humans give a significance to the second hand. There chances are the same but it happened. It doesn't matter what the chances are if it happened and it can be studied and explained why it happened but it happened.


Comments are for you guys, not for me. Say what you will. Don't feel compelled to stay on topic, I enjoy it when comments enter Tangentville or veer off into Non Sequitur Town. Just keep it polite, okay?

I am attempting to use blogger's new comment spam feature. If you don't immediately see your comment, it is being held in spam, I will get it out next time I check the filter. Unless you are Dennis Markuze, in which case you're never seeing your comment.

Creative Commons License
Forever in Hell by Personal Failure is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at