Protestants Experience Institutionalized Racism in the US?

Upon reading the third sentence of this screed against Elena Kagan, I screamed "WHAT THE FUCK?!" You probably heard me. People in China probably heard me. My boss definitely heard me.

Me: "WHAT THE FUCK?!"

My boss: O_o

Me: "Uh . . . stubbed my toe?"

My boss: *_*

Seriously, this spleenweasel almost got me fired.

The nomination of Elena Kagan for Supreme Court should outrage evangelical Protestants. The reason is not simply her legal perspective, her lack of judicial experience, or her personal view of faith and religious liberties. Devout Christians of all denominations and races are in danger of experiencing what blacks in the late 1960s and early 1970s called “institutional racism” or “institutional discrimination.”

Really? From over here in the atheist corner, Christians have so much privilege it's oozing out their ears. Some examples of Christian privilege in the US*.

• An American Christian can affix a Jesus fish to his or her car without having to give vandalism a second thought. And yet, I do not get to place any sort of symbol promoting science, reason, or atheism on my car for fear of vandalism or assault. The same goes for t-shirts.
• The state of Florida actually exempts faith-based day-care centersfrom state inspection and licensing while requiring both of secular day-care centers.
• Christian billboards are commonplace, but atheist billboards are typically met with vandalism, protests, and calls to the billboard owner.
• Public school teachers may come under fire for criticizing religion but are expected to criticize every other form of idiocy.

Testify in Court and the first thing they do is make you take an oath to God on the Bible. Nobody even notices a cross necklace, that's just jewelry, but try wearing a Darwin fish or pagan symbol and see what you get. Sneeze and get blessed, don't bless someone who sneezes and you are the rudest person imaginable. I could go on and on. Christians have privilege in this country which is entirely unlike being the victim of discrimination and it is unbelievably offensive to the actual victims of discrimination to have the privileged claim this. Blown away, I am.

*I keep making the point "in the US" because Christians do experience actual persecution and discrimination in other countries. This often involves torture, lengthy imprisonment and murder. I am horrified by this and if I could do anything to stop it, I would. In fact, I strongly support allowing victims of religious persecution asylum in the US- because there is no persecution or discrimination against Christians in the US.

For Thee, but Not For Me?

persecution, christianity, beetlebabee, atheism, atheist, olive jones
I've been ignoring my favorite blogot*, and I feel bad about that. So today, I give you a dissection of People of Faith Under Persecution by the Beetle Blogger.

According to Beetle, poor Olive Jones, an inhome teacher for disabled students, offered to pray- once!- for a 14-year-old girl with cancer and the girl's evil, secular parents had her fired.

Of course, the parents tell a slightly different story, which Beetle didn't bother to include in her post.

Paddy and Stephanie Lynch, whose daughter is seriously ill with leukaemia, said Olive Jones' constant 'preaching' left their child deeply distressed.

. . .

Mrs Lynch, 43, who quit her job with the Higher Education Funding Council in April to care full-time for her daughter, said: 'Mrs Jones was employed to teach maths but used every opportunity to discuss religion, despite the fact I made it clear we were a non-religious family and didn't want to talk about these issues in this way.

'On one occasion she asked my daughter to pray with her, my daughter was distressed by this behaviour.

'On another, after the death of my daughter's close friend, Miss Jones told my 14-year-old daughter that when young people die they go to heaven. These conversations upset my daughter deeply**.'

Well, this sounds a little more reasonable, doesn't it? Ms. Jones was told, repeatedly, to stop discussing religion during what should have been math sessions, Ms. Jones chose to ignore these requests, so the parents requested that Ms. Jones not be given access to their daughter any more.

What I find especially enlightening about Beetle's report on this incident is how often she has blogged about parental sovereignty- the right of parents to raise their children as they see fit. Beetle does not want her children exposed to things like sex education or neutral portrayals of homosexuals, and argues vociferously that it is her right as a parent to control what her children are exposed to.

So why is it not the Lynch's right to decide whether or not their daughter is exposed to religion? Beetle gets to raise her children to hate Teh Ghey and love Joseph Smith, but I do not have the right to decide how to raise my children? Parental sovereignty for thee, but not for me?

Let's also imagine if Beetle would defend the teacher if the situation were reversed and the teacher repeatedly told a minor child, over the parents' objections, that there is no god, no heaven and no hell and that when we die we go nowhere at all. I rather think Beetle would have no interest in defending Ms. Jones under those circumstances.

Thank you for attending today's lesson in monumental hypocrisy.




*blog + bigot = blogot. h/t to [redacted] for coming up with that one.

**My guess would be that (a) a 14-year-old undergoing grueling chemotherapy for leukemia probably doesn't want to discuss death, and (b) fundys are well known for telling people that their dead loved ones who did not accept Jesus are roasting in hell. the fact that saying such a thing to a 14-year-old undergoing grueling chemotherapy for leukemia is unbelievably cruel doesn't matter much when you're peddling fear.

Suspended for Jesus

christian, jesus, persecution, taunton
If you follow fundamentalist or right wing (not much of a difference these days) blogs, you know all about the little boy who was suspended for drawing a picture of Jesus. It's a travesty, proof that the atheists have won, Christians are persecuted in the US, and the end of days is upon us!

Except that it never happened.

Julie Hackett, superintendent of Taunton Public Schools, said the student was never suspended and that neither he nor other students at the Maxham Elementary School were asked by their teacher to sketch something that reminded them of Christmas or any religious holiday, as the (local) newspaper reported and the (boy's) father suggested....She said the boy's drawing was seen as a potential cry for help when the student identified himself, rather than Jesus, as the figure on the cross, which sparked the teacher to alert the school's principal and staff psychologist.

Bravo to the teacher! I would very be concerned about a little boy who saw himself as Jesus on the cross, and hopefully I would have the courage to brave said little boy's parents' potential wrath and make sure professionals were called in to help. Nobody did anything wrong in this case, with the exception of an interview happy father more than willing to prostititute his son's potential troubles to the lie of Christian persecution in the US.

This will in no way stop the fundys from using this case as proof of their persecution, nor will it teach anyone a lesson about getting the entire story before drawing conclusions. You'd hope that it would, but it won't.

Call Me When They Bring Back the Lions

christian, christianity, persecution, god, bible, flag,
I'm so over the Christian hegemony in this country and their cries of persecution. There are places in the world where Christians are beaten, tortured, maimed and killed and what do Christians in this country complain about? Having to obey dress codes.

A Florida man says he was fired from his job at The Home Depot for wearing an American flag pin that said "One nation under God, indivisible."

Trevor Keezer, 20, said he had worn the button ever since he started working at the home improvement retailer 19 months ago. He said it was his way of supporting U.S. troops, the Florida Sun-Sentinel reported.

Okay, I understand how an American flag pin is seen as supportive of our troops, but Home Depot has approved flag pins for that purpose. How does "One nation under God, indivisible" support our troops?

Mr. Keezer was not fired on the spot, by the way. He was told to remove the pin, told that Home Depot has approved flag pins, and then was given 6 chances to comply. 6! That's really generous. I've never worked anywhere that would give an employee 6 chances to comply with the dress code.

Mr. Keezer continues to miss the point, btw.

As for Keezer, he says he didn't set out to make a religious statement, but now that he has, he believes he's done the right thing."

I want to be a voice for the rest of the Christians and for the citizens of this country to stand up for the country. You know, quit being told to sit down. Say what you want to say and don't be afraid of the consequences," he said.

Nobody's telling you to shut up on your own time, Mr. Keezer, but when you are at work, you are getting paid to work. If that work includes wearing a uniform, you don't get to make your own additions to that uniform. That's not a violation of free speech, that's just being an employee.

Who here thinks that everyone rallying behind Mr. Keezer would have their mouths sewn shut if his pin celebrated Al'lah instead of the Christian god?

Roman Polanski =/= a Priest

roman polanski, pedophile, pedophilia, catholic, church, christian, persecution, priest,
At first glance, mathew archbold's whinge that Roman Polanski proves our persecution against Christians seems reasonable.

Just for a moment I want you to imagine that Roman Polanski was a priest. Frightening, yes?

But for the sake of my point imagine that he's a priest who drugged and raped a thirteen year old.

Imagine he's a priest who fled to France so as to avoid punishment for his crime. Imagine that he flaunted his freedom in America's face for decades.Now imagine that Roman Polanski as a priest was apprehended by the police after all those years. Now, imagine what the media would be saying.

There's one little problem with this: the Catholic Church demands that we view, and treat, priests differently from producers (and everyone else on the planet).

Priests are special, we are told. Priests hold special moral authority, directly from God, we are told. Priests are better than the rest of us, which is what allows priests to teach us, admonish us and absolve us of sins. (I grew up Catholic before all the scandals. This is exactly how Catholics used to view priests.)

You can't have it both ways, my dear mathew. Either priests are special, which makes their crimes special, or they're not special, don't have the ear of God and don't have the right to tell anyone anything. You can't stand there and tell me that I'm not a good person because I voted for Obama, and then turn around and say, "but Roman Polanski did it, too!"

Carrie Prejean v2.0*

persecution, christian, homosexual, gay, patricia mauceri, carrie prejean,
Patricia Mauceri of One Life to Live was fired from the show for refusing to say the lines she was given. Last time I checked, that is the job of an actress: saying the words written for you to say. Saying these words is not a comment on the actor's/acrtress' personal beliefs, unless you think Anthony Hopkins is pro serial murder/cannibalism.

Apparently the actress was hoping she and the writers could come to some kind of compromise with the homosexual storyline. However, that didn’t happen. Patricia is reportedly looking at her legal options to see if anything can be done.

In this day and age, it’s sad to see someone get fired for sticking to his or her beliefs. What has happened to this world?

There are really only two options for Ms. Mauceri: say the lines or don't and get fired. Those are her two options. She can't decide what lines to say or not to say. Then you'll have every actor/actress vying to write their own lines, and while that might work out well for some, I'm not seeing that as the best way to get quality entertainment. (Not that I consider soap operas to be quality entertainment, but that's a different post.) Seriously, can you imagine, for the sake of consistent example, Anthony Hopkins balking at every other line in Silence of the Lambs because he's a Christian and his character had some very unchristian sentiments to express?

Even outside of the world of entertainment, does anyone think that sort of behavior should be accommodated** in any other workplace? Should I decide which cases I will work on and which ones I won't? Should I be allowed to rewrite every other word my boss dictates for religious reasons? Christianity actually forbids charging interest- should I tell the clients that I can't type mortgages that include interest because I'm Christian, and then expect to keep my job?

I rather think not. And I don't think the writer of that article really does, either.

*hat tip to [redacted]

**edited just for you, o depressed one.

Cancer Patient Fired for Atheism

christian, atheism, atheist, amanda donaldson, cancer, breast, persecution,
As if stage III breast cancer weren't enough, Amanda Donaldson was fired from her job for being an atheist.

Meet Amanda Donaldson, a Stage III Invasive Ductal Carcinoma Breast Cancer Patient. In a recent blog entry her husband claims she was fired from her job by her employer Dr. Dawson at ‘El Dorado Chiropractic’ because of her illness and for her lack of religious beliefs.

May 4th was Amanda’s first day back to work since April 14th because of her mastectomy, the surgical removal of the entire affected breast. Mr. Donaldson claims that “a few hours into her shift he(Dr. Dawson) again brings up that she needs Jesus in her life and she respectfully declined.”

In a reply email to AtheosToday, Mr. Donaldson stated that his wife was then terminated. “She was told to leave. She was told ‘Her attitude towards God was no longer welcome in his business’.”

Please show your support for Amanda. (If you can show financial support, that would be great. She and her husband have 3 children, and even with Emergency Medicaid, cancer ain't cheap.)

And the next time some christian asshat whinges about being persecuted, you tell them all about Amanda, and ask them the last time a christian fighting cancer was fired for Jesus.

Get Your Irony Goggles

anti-defamation, cass, christian, commission, irony, jesus, persecution, prejean, stone, stupid
Dr. Gary L. Cass of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission has created irony so strong in his latest email that if we could learn to harness its power, our energy troubles would be over. We could light entire cities with just this one email. We could save the environment with Dr. Cass' stupid- but then we'd probably have to give him the Nobel Prize for something, and that would create irony of apocalyptic proportions. I may have doomed us all with this post.

I'm willing to take that chance.

Dr. Cass, whose previous email alerts have included such topics as the "Pedophile Protection Act" aka the hate crimes bill, and the "End of the World as We Know It" aka same sex marriage, has this to say about Ms. Prejean and the media storm surrounding her:

By courageously shining the light of God’s truth on the marriage issue, now homosexuals and their allies irrationally seek to defame and destroy Carrie Prejean. Perez Hilton, “queen of all media,” and his ally Keith Olbermann, need to take some advice from Jesus Christ; “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”

I warned you about the goggles, people. Don't blame me.

The Last Acceptable Prejudice

persecution, christian, christianity, holy, religion, jesus, easter, god, atheism, atheist,
I would have thought the last totally acceptable prejudice was hating fat people, but no, apparently, it's hating Christians! (In a country that self identifies as over 75% Christian. I'm thinking of mailing everyone in the country a dictionary, with "persecution" highlighted.)

For the Media, It's Unholy Week by Colleen Raezler

Apparently, we're only allowed to talk about certain things in the week preceding Easter. Any news that might reflect negatively (now matter how tangentially) on Christians is not be to be reported. In deference to the zombie king, I think.

Most regular church-goers have heard their less scrupulously observant fellows called "Christmas and Easter Christians." I would imagine it's the regular church-goers using that phrase, because who else would. and, in my family, that was "holly and lilly christians". Well, they also have their counterparts in the mainstream media: "Christmas and Easter Anti-Christians." how would these be counterparts, exactly? we're comparing regular attendees to those who only attend on high holy days. is she saying that "antichristian" reporters that only surface around high holy (christian) days are somehow worse than year round "antichristian" reporters? analogy fail. How else to explain the spate of skeptical, negative stories that inevitably accompany the two most important Christian holy days? inevitably? or is it just that events occur regardless of what high holy day your religion is experiencing? perhaps Ms. Raezler is suggesting that we not in any way negatively report on Muslims around Ramadan?

This Holy Week has been typical. Newsweek proclaimed "The Decline and Fall of Christian America" on its cover. in response to a legitimate study that was released in March. stupid scientists, not taking the holy week into account when releasing their findings. The Washington Post/Newsweek "On Faith" blog featured a post that belittled the significance of Jesus' death and resurrection. you know, i'm putting in all these links, which is problematic, because I can't find the post she's referencing. The most recent On Faith post is entitled "Is Your Rabbi Hot or Not?" The Discovery Channel aired a documentary that painted Jesus as little more than an opportunistic politician who caught a bad break in a trial. didn't see it, but oh, noes, did somebody portray jesus in a way your religion doesn't approve of? well, that's easily as bad as lions!

These are just the most notable recent instances of secular media's disdain for traditional Christians and the tenets of their faith. we should tiptoe around the christians and say nothing that upsets them. ever. and especially not during holy week! Anti-Christianism is the last acceptable prejudice. The assault on Christian beliefs and morality is ongoing. there's gays! right there! being gay! Take for example the howls of outrage when the Pope reiterated Catholic teaching on abstinence. you mean when the pope told africans at risk for contracting HIV that condoms spread HIV? that?

But because Easter is so central to understanding Jesus and His purpose, and to Christians' own understanding of the world, easter is central to your understanding of the world? the secular attack escalates during Holy Week. it's part of the atheist agenda. or possibly the liberal agenda. with a little help from the gay agenda. It takes on more existential dimensions the atheist/liberal/gay agenda takes on existential dimensions? would that be the 8th dimension, or the 11th?, questioning Christianity's relevance in the modern world, how dare we not recognize your supreme importance and bow before your superior understanding of the world?! the meaning of Christ's lessons and ultimately, His divinity. which doesn't matter at all to me, but i guess i don't understand the world.

Depending on your point of view, Jesus was either a charismatic populist crusader, a doctrinaire Marxist or "do your own thing" feel-good guru. Anything but the Son of God. how dare, HOW DARE, HOW DARE anyone not think exactly as she thinks?! ever! in the history of time! it's persecution I tell you! If that's what you think of Him, it's easy to see why you would question His relevance. hey, wait, that's my line.

It just goes on like that, she quotes Michael Medved, insults a few people, but I think you get the jist: If you don't believe exactly as she believes, and you don't keep your damn(ed) mouth shut about it- you're persecuting christians.

Free Speech Is Only for Christians

persecution, atheism, atheist, atheophobia, richard, dawkins, darwin, evolution, oklahoma, university, thomsen, god, jesus, religion, christian, free speech
Apparently, that whole thing in the First Amendment about freedom of speech only applies if you're talking about Jesus.

Oklahoma Representative Todd Thomsen proposed a measure to force the University of Oklahoma to disinvite Richard Dawkins from speaking at the University at an event celebrating the 150th anniversary of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.

Despite the sound and fury, Dawkins went ahead as scheduled on March 6, packing in an audience of several thousands. Case closed, right? Not so fast.

I have received indication from numerous sources that the Oklahoma legislature is pressing ahead with an investigation of the event, probably to divine if any state funds were used. Dawkins, for his part, adamantly denies accepting a single cent for the speech. He specifically waived his normal honorarium, because this would be a mainly student audience. Even if he had taken money, however, the University department that invited Dawkins would have been perfectly within its rights to pay him. If this investigation is indeed taking place, what the state legislature needs to understand is that in court cases dating back to the days of the House Committee on Un-American Activities, even investigating clearly protected speech on the basis of its viewpoint violates the First Amendment.

Think about it: If every time a student or faculty member invited, say, Rick Warren to speak on campus, they knew they would be subjected to a thorough and time-consuming investigation by state officials, you can all but guarantee that schools across the country would think twice before inviting Rick Warren. This would be a great way for state legislatures to chill speech they dislike without ever having to find the speaker guilty of a single thing.

Talk about your un-American activities.

So, free speech is fine if you're preaching Jesus or condemning gays, but dare to say that there may very well be no god, and you need to shut the fuck up.

I again invite Christians to explain to me how persecuted they are here in the US.

Christian Appreciation Day

persecution, oppression, religion, religious, christian, christianity, asshat, stupid,
I would like to clarify something. If you are the majority, you are not being oppressed or persecuted. If you are a part of the majority, and believe you are being oppressed and persecuted, you don't have any idea what those words mean. I suggest a visit to the Holocaust Museum, for starters.

What set me off is a comment to an equally irrational post:

I don’t want to sound like an elitist, but THIS is why I homeschool!! Obviously, that route is not for everyone, but this is the reason I shudder at the thought of public school. My kindergartner does not need to be subjected to this kind of social garbage. He is not old enough to have to decide who is right, his parents or his teachers/peers. Why can’t they* back off, and just promote a general respect for all human beings, without promoting specific social lifestyles? They want to scream inequality, but can you imagine the outcry if there were a “Christian Appreciation Day” where we celebrated all the famous christians of our nation, and openly taught basic christian principles? That would NEVER fly. Tell me who’s being oppressed, and who’s being celebrated? They might be the minority in numbers, but when it comes to social acceptance, they’re allowed to do just about anything they want.

*"They" is the gays, with their desire for equality. It's outrageous!

Here's a clue for you, asshat. EVERY day in the US is "Christian Appreciation Day". Every damn day. "Basic christian principles"? Go to any public square, any courthouse, and you'll see some kind of christian display. Pull the money out of your pocket- that's got a christian display on it. Your high holy days are national fucking holidays. Any candidate for presidency must- MUST- prove his christian credentials if they hope to get anywhere at all.

We don't have Christian Appreciation Day for the same reason we don't have "White Heterosexual Male Anglo Saxon Protestant Day." Because it would be redundant.

In Actual Persecution News

persecution, atheism, atheist, testify, testimony, oath, arkansas, christian,god
Atheists in Arkansas are not allowed to testify in court, though the Supreme Court ruled such prohibitions unconstitutional in 1961. (big shout out to Unreasonable Faith for posting this first.)

Would anyone like to tell me how persecuted christians are in the US again?

Credit Where Credit Is Due

christian, religion, jesus, equality, hate, fundamentalism, fundamentalist, fundy, homophobia, homosexual, religious, civil rights, prop 8, persecution,

Please go to Christians for Equality and watch this clip. It's nice to see Christians standing up to the "the bible makes me hate" crowd.

Yes, We are in the 21st Century- and Yes, She Was Suspended for Being a Witch

persecution, wicca, religion, christian, aclu, civil rights, stupid, pagan, atheism, atheist, theocracy, bible, god, jesus,

A 15 year old Wiccan in Oklahoma was suspended from school for 15 days for casting a hex on a teacher and making him ill. Yes, this happened in the US. No, it did not happen during the Salem witch trials. Unfuckingbelievable.

From the ACLU's website: In its legal complaint filed today in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Oklahoma, the ACLU said that school officials not only suspended Blackbear for 15 days in December 1999 for allegedly casting spells, but also violated her religious freedom when they told her that she could not wear or draw in school any symbols related to the Wicca religion.

The ACLU lawsuit also accuses school officials of violating the young woman's due process rights when, in the spring of 1999, they suspended her for 19 days over the content of private writings taken from her book bag. Officials had searched her possessions based on a rumor that Blackbear was carrying a gun, although no weapon of any sort was ever found. To date, school officials have not returned Blackbear's writings to her.

Hey, why doesn't some oh-so-earnest christian tell me all about how the world hates you and how persecuted you are?

Time to Fight . . . Or Is It?

There was this videogame, where the main character kept announcing "Time to die" in the moviefone voice . . . but that's neither here nor there.

The RaptureReady message boards continue to amuse.

MROD seems to have succombed to persecution porn with this post: I am sure I am not the only one who has thought about or prepared themselves for what the future may bring in these trouble times. True, MROD, we're all cutting back and saving what we can . . . oh, that's not what you mean, is it?

It would seem that if pressure mounts against us Christians the pressure of being the majority, or the pressure of oppressing the rest of us? that has to be exhausting. or become targeted in the future by whom? the majority? that would be . . . you. that we should join together and fight this is funny until you consider how much these people exercise their second amendment rights ... but where does Jesus give us this in scripture?

he doesn't.

Matt 5:39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

seems pretty clear to me.

It seems that the only people that are meant to fight are the Jews. huh? show your work. So far from what I have read, we are just to stand and trust in the Lord's might to fight for us. good luck with that. If anyone can show me a verse in which Jesus says we must fight I would love to see it. because all this turning the other cheek and being meek is really a pain in the ass. I am just posting this message because I think as Christians we must deny ourselves as Christ gave himself up for us on the cross. what? wouldn't denying oneself be very zen? i think one reaches nirvana that way. I think we might go through some sort of suffering that is to come on his account. and when you equal the jews their suffering, let me know. No, it wont be the wrath of tribulation ya know, because we won't be there. but I think right now the Bride is being purified... God is pruning and its uncomfortable. what unfortunate imagery. besides, pruning is only uncomfortable for the branch being cut off, is the poster trying to say that god doesn't love him anymore?I cant tell you how many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are going through lots of really tough times... adultery, divorce, foreclosures, lay offs, repossession of vehicles, rough job situations, financial issues, and serious health problems. because god doesn't work that way. tell me where, exactly where, in the bible it says that praying to jebus means you won't have troubles? To me it all seems like a big WAKE UP call to Christians, ... pay attention, be watchful, Jesus IS COMING! shouldn't i be the watchful one? after all, when jebus returns, you'll be raptured to heaven (naked!) and i'll be tribulating.

dorcus replies: I was thinking about this subject the other day. these people really scare me. I actually think the New Testament tells us to obey those in authority so that we can live in peace. it does? then why were the original christians toppling empires back in the day? The New Testament also tells us that those in leadership are put there by God himself it does? the old testament has many instances of god directly appointing kings and generals, but i don't think the NT addresses this issue. sticky though, if you consider that these people fucking HATE obama. they think he's the antichrist . . . but god appointed him president. ok. , so if we fight back are we fighting against God? If this thinking is correct than the the Revolutionary War was actually against the word of God. these people's minds are like endless tangled skeins of yarn. Yet, the US has done much historically to bless and protect the Jews and Israel (once it became a state) that was in 1948. how much history is that, exactly?. One could go crazy trying to figure it out. i'll grant you that.

wally, who shamelessly misuses copyrighted images, says: It will be a long and difficult debate. do you fight or not? does the bible command it or forbid it? But God told us to turn the other cheek, give our cloak and shirt, walk miles, do everything for the glory of God. end of debate, apparently. Will we take a stand? see the previous sentence. you wrote it. Many will and sell their lives dear. Some will be voices crying from jails MLK?, hidden rooms, or openly tortured is he honestly suggesting that USians will be tortured on tv in the US? or maybe christ's chosen people are the muslims. now it all makes sense!.Each one must ask the Lord and to, not and do His will through us. Whatever is done must be as a testimony to Jesus. doesn't matter if you obey or disobey god, just do it as a testimony to jesus. Follow His example. allow yourself to be tortured and killed without resisting. Remember rams are sheep too and they have horns. hello? are you not familiar with jesus' example? i'm the atheist here. And the greatest of displayed faith - was a soldier. what the fuck is he talking about?

Matt 26:50-52 :

50Jesus replied, "Friend, do what you came for."
Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51With that, one of Jesus' companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.
52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

again, pretty clear.

AnnOdom44 replies: There is one place where Jesus tells His disciples to get a sword, but I can't find it right off hand

I think Eph 6:17 is what she is talking about, but she gets it wrong. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Ashleigh isn't so eager to smack people around: Yes, we are told to "fight" but not the way the world fights. And the battle isn't a battle for our lives or comforts. It's a battle for the spiritual lives of others, because when all is said and done, that is all that matters... whether or not a person has received Christ as their Savior. So, she'll be showing at my door with a bunch of pamphlets, but she won't be carrying a gun. better than the alternative.

Ramadi Warrior is, unsurprisingly, a little less pacifistic: I'll tell you when to fight. You fight when the United States Constitution is no longer protecting you and it is not holding the government. it dropped the government? on it's head? I guess you could say that it's happening now or for the last 8 years, but why quibble?, but aside from that. aside from that what? you have to follow up "aside from that" with something. anything! This country was founded on Biblical principles the founding fathers just accidentally separated church and state and then accidentally wrote lots of letters defending that position, even occassionally using that exact phrase. It's an illusion! and was clearly blessed by God. clearly? find me the US in the bible, asshat. We should rise up and take this nation back for God- however we have to do it. lock your doors, kids. I'll be fighting when they outlaw my Christianity. never, then? If they want to come after me, bring it. I'm hearing that as said by Marcus Fenix in Gears of War 2. (It's one of his fighting phrases that pop up anytime you're in a fighting sequence. There's about a dozen of them, and some of them are quite amusing. the kill phrases are even better. every now and then, if you snipe someone's head off, he says, "look ma, no face") If they want my guns then they better bring an army with them waco? because God has given every individual the right to defend himself now he's confusing the constitution with the bible. this guy is dangerous!

Chopin's Ghost eggs Ramadi Warrior on: Yeah you tell it brother!

you watch the people carrying bibles around. they're dangerous.

Naughty or Nice?

I love the word naughty. I aspire to be naughty. Mostly I achieve nice with occasional moments of bitchiness. *sigh*

So, check out the Friend or For Christmas Campaign Naughty and Nice List. It's high-larious!

See, here's the thing: There is no war on Christmas. Let me repeat that: there is no war on Christmas.

This is all part of the Christian Persecution Complex, as discussed in my previous post. To recap: Christians in the US are not persecuted. They are free to practice their religion however they please. Everyone else is free to do the same. Therein lies the rub. CPC fetishists don't want everyone else to be free to worship, or not, as they please, they want to turn the US into a theocracy and force everyone to worship as they do. Do I need to explain why this is a not good idea?

This war on Christmas idea seems to stem from the belief that if everyone isn't saying "Merry Christmas" and putting up Christmas decorations and celebrating Christmas, then . . . Jesus ceases to exist?

Look at the Naughty and Nice List. There is no mention of Christmas as a religious holiday, no mention of Jesus, just a list of stores that say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas". What does Jesus care about that? What does that have to do with religion at all?

Let's try an example. Jews celebrate Passover. Passover is a huge deal for them. Passover is not a national holiday, there are no Passover decorations, no Passover tv specials, no Passover cards. Yet, somehow, the Jews still manage to celebrate Passover. Those brave, valiant souls. Puhlease.

You don't need me to validate your religion. You want to worship, go for it. I will defend your right to do so. Just do me a favor and leave me out of it.

Rapturous Ramadan, everyone!

Persecuted Christians!

The Atheists are coming! The Atheists are coming! (Apparently, that is the official atheist logo. I had no idea. I like it: it's colorful, textured and vaguely Star Treky. Fishes got nothing on us, baby! And, since I think that is a hydrogen atom- only one electron- we're explosive!)

More from the fundamentalist whackjobs that think US christians are persecuted. Yes, really. No, I did not make this shit up. I don't have to.

Standing with the King by Ron Graham

blahblahblah Noah was supernaturally covered by the Lord (inciting porn imagery) blahblahblah

Certainly we too have this supernatural covering as we face adversities in our walk with Jesus. In “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs” we can read of numerous occasions where Christians were being put through the most horrible of deaths, and eye witnesses exclaimed as they watched the faces of those being put to death “Their faces seemed as angels smiling to the end.” How is that possible? Only through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can we Christians stand in the face of such horrendous tortures and persecutions. Actually, if you were being tortured to death, wouldn't you be happy when it was finally over? This happens to people who have been suffering horribly from terminal cancer or other such lingering, painful diseases. At the end, it doesn't hurt anymore. Good enough reason to smile for me.

Moving on to: If you won't let me do anything to you I want, dictate your life and trash the Constitution, you are persecuting me!

I’m not saying I believe we are going to experience anything like those I’ve mentioned then why bring it up? seriously, stop with the persecution porn but I do believe persecution of the Christian Church is coming. Show your work. It would be quite arrogant of us Christians living here in the U.S. to think we are immune. Comparing the US to places like communist Russia or China or the Middle East is illogical and dirty. We have a Constitution that separates church and state. This protects religion as much as it protects the rest of us. In order for the persecution of Christians to occur, someone would have to legislate away both the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause. Good luck with that. What kind of persecutions are coming you might ask? Well, yeah! Well certainly we are already witnessing some of it today. Oh, really?

Watch the news and you’ll see the agenda of the homosexuals hard at work persecuting the Church. Of course it's Teh Gay, the mightiest of all evils. The slacktivist did a wonderful series on how Teh Gay became the greatest of all evils in the fundavelagist community. You should read it. I was surprised at how recently Teh Gay has become the focus of Teh Hate. All homosexuals want is to be left alone. Surprisingly, they don't like being the focus of all that hate any more than I would. (Actually surprisingly, as an atheist, I get a lot less hate.) Homosexuals want civil rights, they want to stop being discriminated against, they want to stop being the victims of violence. What is wrong with that?

Do not post one of those ridiculous screeds about how the bible condemns homosexuality. First of all, this only occurs in Leviticus, which is the book of Jewish law. Leviticus also condemns as "an abomination" the eating of shellfish. Lev 11:9-12 Do Christians not eat shrimp? Of course they eat shrimp. They ignore everything else in Leviticus, but keep the gay-hating. Nice.

Do not post some idiotic rant about how Teh Gay ruins marriages. I have yet to see anyone prove that, and I doubt you will either. Then I will have to engage you in conversation that will make me feel dirty, and I can't afford to keep heating water for shower after shower.

Laws are being formulated and progressed to systematically eliminate God’s Holy Word from all venues in our public arenas. Those are not new laws. Rexamine the Establishment Clause if you need to. That was the original intent of the framers of the Constitution. Besides, no one is taking your bible away from you, so how does not having the 10 commandments in the courthouse persecute christians. You are still welcome to follow and preach your religion all you want. Just not on publicly (owned by everyone, atheists included!) property. Never in the history of the English printed Bible what? What the hell is the reference here? Oh yeah, Aramaic and Hebrew and Greek versions were wrong, because god loves English best. Which is why Jesus was an Aramaic-speaking orthodox Jew! God really does work in mysterious ways. has there been such a determination to remove it and deliver it to its final resting place, a heap of burning Bibles. Again, persecution porn. Has the governemnt of the ever US fired up a heap of bibles? No. Is anyone suggesting it, trying to pass bills to that effect? No.

Around the world today Christians are being persecuted, abused, discriminated against, and martyred for adhering to their faith in Jesus Christ. In countries not the US, some of them, this is true. It's very sad. It's why the Establishment and Free Expression Clauses are so very important.

See, this idiot never thought this through. Clearly. Suppose we do set up a theocracy. Right now, Christianity in general is the dominant religion in the country (76.5% self identify as Christian). What specific type of Christianity is dominant? Catholicism. (24.5% self identify as Catholic, compared to 16.3% Baptist, which I'm guessing is what Graham is.) So, if we were to set up a theocracy, we'd have to go with Catholicism, because they're the most numerous. I guarantee Mr. Graham would jump for joy on hearing the US was a theocracy, and then spit up his skull upon hearing he had been involutarily converted to Catholicism.

That might be worth seeing. Except for being Catholic again. I didn't really like it the first time. Oh well.

Freedom of religion is of the past, intolerance toward Christians is the order of the day. Are we discussing Iran or something? Most country’s governments today are involved in silencing the Christian’s voice in one way or another. I guess it depends upon what you mean by "most". I really couldn't find any good data on this, because a search for "christian persecution" gives me pages and pages of this sort of persecution porn. Living in the US though, I can definitively say that christians in the US are not persecuted. They're just not allowed to persecute me. Which is no fun at all, apparently.

No they won’t admit it. Because it's not true! Conspiracy theory porn. None the less is one word, they are hard at it and won’t be satisfied until their satanic mission is complete. That's right! I refuse to allow you to turn my fine democracy into a theocracy and force convert me to your insanity because I'm a Satan worshipper. You caught me. Damn you, Ron Graham! Who's unamerican again?

God will not be mocked, revenge porn and if this new administration coming soon on the scene believes it can run the United States of America without God Obama is christian, but he clearly believes that god is not part of the equation for running the US, as is clearly stated in the constitution, they certainly have another thing coming, the correct expression is "they have another think coming" and I’m being very serious seriously? when I say this. God is in control not of the US, thank god and with His Church being under such pressure to assimilate into the new culture being promoted nobody is asking you to . . . assimilate? What, atheists are Borg now?He will take drastic measures to free us from such bondage. WHAT FREAKIN' BONDAGE? Does this guy ever actually read the bible? The Israelites were under bondage to the Pharaoh. You're allowed to worship any way you want, as much as you want, with whomever you want. How is that persecution?

Don’t be fooled into believing the lie of our newly elected president that we need change. Economy is in freefall, unemployment up, foreclosures the highest since the Great Depression, people homeless, starving, uninsured, banks and businesses failing right and left-- Yes, we do need change. Absolutely we do.

When he makes that statement he’s talking about changing our current Christian nation into an atheistic, socialistic, humanistic, Satan following nation of fools.

Wow. Ok, let's tackle these one at a time:

(1) socialistic. The current highest tax rate is 36%. Obama wants to make it 39%. At what point in the 3% difference does this become socialism?

(2) humanistic. I'm not sure why this is a dirty word to fundavangelicals. This is the definition of humanism: a broad category of ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appealing to universal human qualities, particularly rationality. Why is that bad? Ummmm . . . it's not based on god? Dignity and worth are still good whether you got the idea from god or not. Maybe it's the rationality part. After all, if you started thinking, you might think about what Graham says, and then you'd realize how stupid he is, and he would be out of a job. Thinking is not good for Ron Graham.

(3) the juxtaposition of atheist and Satan-following. A Satan worshipping atheist is an oxymoron. You cannot be an atheist and a Satan worshipper. Atheists specifically do not believe in any gods at all. Therefore, we do not believe in Satan. I am no more a Satan worshipper than I am a Santa worshipper, or a Tooth Fairy worshipper.

Christians, hold on to God’s promises. Which you are completely free to do in the US. Be as steadfast as Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were in their time and don’t let an evil king sway you in your beliefs. Our only King is King Jesus and we adhere to His word for our lives. Obama isn't a king, he's President, well, will be President, and nobody is required to worship the US President. In fact, you are entirely free to make fun of him, hate him, protest against him, or anything else you'd like short of threatening his safety. In fact, Ron Graham takes advantage of this freedom all the time. Pray for our nation and our newly elected Presidential administration, but don’t be lulled to sleep; stay vigilant in your walk with Christ. Ah, prayer as a threat. Lovely.

How do we believers occupy ‘til He comes? By holding fast to our faith in Christ. Never stop studying God’s word. Just as important, and imperative, is our continued witnessing to the lost. Yeesh. You are free to to believe anything you like. Leave me out of it. Even though we are growing closer to the Rapture of His Church, Rapture porn! we are aware that Jesus is still saving lives and He will continue with or without a God fearing U.S. President. Exactly. God doesn't need the US to establish a theocracy, any more than God would need a starship.