Wednesday, June 24, 2009

If Things Were Different, They Wouldn't Be the Same

evangelism, witness, atheism, atheist, stupid, christian, god, bible,
It's really amusing when fundys try to prove god using science. It would be like me trying to convert someone to atheism using the principles of Shintoism. Absurd, but fun.

carrieb, from Rapture Ready, tries to convert us all with the observation that if things were diferent, they wouldn't be the same.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:18-20) Random bible quotes, always good when attempting to convert those who don't believe the bible is the word of god.

I have been thinking to myself that God, in some ways, is the author of simplicity but in others, he's the author of complexity, that his glory has been made so obvious, so clear, that atheists and non-believers have completely overlooked what is plain in His creation. if it's that obvious, that plain and clear, how could we possible have "overlooked" it? "ignore" I could see, but "overlook"? I believe that He has made his being known so immediately, so eloquently, so transparently, step away from the thesaurus! that the pride of intellectual pursuit inhibits these people's ability to see Him because He is right before their eyes - can't see the forest through the trees. first of all, can't see the forest for the trees. secondly, yeah, yeah, yeah, liberal elites, we get it. The most obvious characteristics of our earth and our existence speak volumes of the power, care and glory of our God. really? is there a signature somewhere i haven't heard about. We have a brilliant white light moon, no, we don't. the moon reflects the sun's light. it is not in and of itself possessing of a brilliant white light. one powerful warming sun and a vision into our starry night sky that resounds in the thought of eternity. the sky? Each of these things is a magnitude of two contrasts - it is? it is in these two contrasts that God so plainly displays his invisible attributes. if they're invisible, they're not plainly displayed. one or the other, folks.

"The heavens declare the glory of God, and the skies declare the work of His hands" (Psalm 19:1) it's weird how much the bible says god exists. i wonder if there's a reason for that?

Imagine for a moment that we live in an entirely different kind of landscape and still have a similar human existence. so, we live on an entirely different planet, but we're still exactly the same? you know that's basically impossible, right? you know that life evolves in reaction to the environment it's in, not some other . . . oh, yeah. It's not difficult to imagine that we could be living on a planet with a permanent heavier cloud cover where we are constantly drenched in mist and where there are 8 orange and dark gray moons orange and dark grey moons? why are they orange and dark grey? you really think the moon has its own light, don't you., where we orbit a two star system wherein there is no distinct contrast between day or night. well, actually, there wouldn't be day and night in that situation. there'd be day and day. Beyond those fixtures in our gray sky, wait a minute, we have 2 suns, but no sunlight? okay. no other glimpses into the heavens are available to us. It could be a planet of constant environs where there is no change of seasons, no balance between ice and heat - everything is simply maintained in a weatherless lukewarm wait a minute, wouldn't "weatherless lukewarm" be the balance between ice and heat? and why are there no seasons? seasons are caused by our orbit and the tilt of the planet, why are there no seasons? and damp state and yet human life is viable. well, sure, but human life as we know it is very unlikely in that scenario. None of these contrasts of Light and Dark when did we start capitalizing those words? and wouldn't it still be dark in a cave or building? would exist and it seems to me, that on that landscape, God might be seen as silent of His majesty. seriously? without our exact setup god is impossible? really?

But on this earth, we are clearly given the two: Day and Night, Dark and Light, White and Black, Dead and Alive, Sleep and Awake - (1) on the other planet, there would still be dark and light, black and white, dead and alive, sleep and awake. (2) what about grey and all the other colors, what about all the in betweens that exist in all of those states? having 2 suns and 8 moons gets rid of all that? all of these are the bare-bones declaration of eternal life with and without God. dark and light prove eternal life? how? To go even further, God created a moon that fits the outline of our sun so perfectly in eclipse - where we see only the shining corona of its power - hope you didn't have your StupidMeter(tm) plugged in for that one. the eclipse is a function of the positions of the moon, earth and sun at certain times, not the other way around. the exact details of size of our moon and sun, their distance from the earth is extraordinary - this is not by chance! and any other details wouldn't be extraordinary? why? does this make sense to anyone?

We're also given a view of space that stretches to infinity, manifesting the glorious handiwork of God, displaying his power for limitlessness - a hint of eternity. sure, whatever. Astronomers will be very quick to say that our placement in the galaxy is one that seems designed for a clear view of the cosmos no, they won't. astronomers are surely appreciative of the view, but they don't claim we were placed right here for some viewing purpose.- we are without space dust clouding our view, and the exact location of our solar system is one that is uncluttered by the glare of close stars. This lends us the full view of other galaxies and stars millions of light years from us. And the more astronomers discover, still more of God's glory is continually revealed to our amazement. or the more scientific discoveries we make.

Our whole existence here is marked by the contrast of two distinct things. and every other thing in between. I'm sure the list could go on forever, but here is the list of contrasts that I considered that directly speak of God's invisible attributes to us every day of our lives. The list of contrasts that the atheists and non-believers "can't see". must not be that obvious then. You'll note that a vast majority of these are the same ones used in the bible to describe all of us - the quick and the dead. wtf?! I'd love to hear of more if you can think of any. stop abusing the word "think". it did nothing to you.

dark/light day/night wet/dry washed/dirty really? those are opposites? alive/dead white/black i like colors, personally saved/unsaved puhlease land/water oh, yeah, nothing in between that. up/down truth/lie that's a matter of interpretation, my dear love/hate that's right, because the two are never combined holy/unclean holy/unholy or clean/unclean pure/tarnished i love this one. the opposite of "pure" is "impure" not "tarnished". pure silver tarnishes very quickly, asshat. inside/outside in the doorway time/eternity beginning/end first/last good/evil hot/cold warm sleep/awake blind/seeing bad eyesight.

sorry, carrieb, your complete misunderstanding of both science and the english language has failed to convert me. better luck next time.


  1. Where to begin, where to begin. First off, if the planet did orbit two suns, meaning a smaller sun orbited a larger one, this would not eliminate night. Is Venus in the sky every night? Now if the planets rotation was the same as the orbit, then only one side of the planet would ever face the sun, this is how the moon works. So astronomy fail right off the bat.

    There is so much more but it would take an astronomer awhile to explain all that is wrong with her statement and I don't have the patience.

    She does prove one thing, she sees the world in black and white only, there is no gray. That is a very sad world she lives in.

  2. Ow, my head!
    The eclipse thing was one of the dumber things I have read recently. I think this person needs to apologize to science.

  3. Thinking about it, she make actually believe the sun orbits the earth. That is the only way her scenario works with the suns. So she is only a few centuries behind.

  4. I hate abusers of astronomy. Bloody Star Trek movie...

    Anyhoo... a much better location for astronomers would be outside the galactic disc, where the glare is much less and you can look directly into the galactic core rather than having to look through a third of a galaxy worth of star light.

    A planet orbiting a binary star system would have to have some very specific properties in order to support life as we know it. In short: the stars would be fairly close to each other, the planet fairly distant from both of them. Thus, they would be quite close in the sky, thus night-and-day would be fairly similar to what we have here on earth.

    A planet with eight moons could be reasonably expected to either be much larger than earth, or with much smaller moons. An earth sized planet with eight luna-sized objects orbiting it would result in end-of-the-world collisions within a few months, maximum.

    On a planet on which a permanent water-vapor cloud cover could be maintained, I would expect thunderstorms and wind patterns many times more violent than those on earth, as well as a significantly higher atmospheric pressure.

    As for the eclipse: yes, it is coincidental that we have a moon the same size (from our perspective) as the sun-disc. Perhaps it's part of the reason ancient astronomers for so long misjudged the distance to the sun by such a wide margin?

  5. no, i am not sure her believing that the sun orbits the earth really explains the "two suns - no night" issue. because in every depection i have ever seen of a planet with more than one sun, the suns seem to "chase each other" across the sky - with only two suns, it would be *much* easier to envision one being a few minutes (of measurment) behind the other, than to envisions some scenario where they are so exactly place that there is *rarely* a night.

    hell, even with *8* suns, there would *sometimes* be a night - Isaac Asimov wrote about that.

    i couldn't read any further than that, really - she sort of described Venus with the cloud layer, but living on one of the Moons of Jupiter with the multiple moon thing - and got both wrong. the moon doesn't produce light!

    *headdesk* did she GO to school?

  6. With the moon moving away from the Earth each year there will come a time when you won't see any of the sun at the moment of an eclipse - well 'designed' God! [rolls eyes]

  7. Not to be a total bitch, but I haven't laughed this hard in at least three days. Thanks!

  8. Freddiesdead wrote:
    With the moon moving away from the Earth each year there will come a time when you won't see any of the sun at the moment of an eclipse - well 'designed' God! [rolls eyes]

    Wait, what?

  9. The end was the best part, you had me laughing quite a few times ;)

  10. I wondered about this too so I looked it up. this is from a site called

    For the last few billion years the Moon's gravity has been raising tides in Earth's oceans which the fast spinning Earth attempts to drag ahead of the sluggishly orbiting Moon. The result is that the Moon is being pushed away from Earth by 1.6 inches (4 centimeters) per year and our planet's rotation is slowing.

    If left unabated the Moon would continue in its retreat until it would take bout 47 days to orbit the Earth. Both Earth and Moon would then keep the same faces permanently turned toward one another as Earth's spin would also have slowed to one rotation every 47 days.

    And just to be sure, I looked it up on wikipedia

    The Moon is gradually receding from the Earth into a higher orbit, and calculations[3][4] suggest that this will continue for about fifty billion years. By that time, the Earth and Moon will become caught up in what is called a "spin–orbit resonance" in which the Moon will circle the Earth in about 47 days (currently 29 days), and both Moon and Earth will rotate around their axes in the same time, always facing each other with the same side. Beyond this, it is hard to tell what will happen to the Earth–Moon system, considering that the Sun is expected to become a red giant in approximately five billion years.

    The only thing is, I'm not sure if that would effect an eclipse as FD said, The fact that both are going to move at the same speed at some point leads me to think only one side of the earth will get to see the moon at all when that happens.


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