Friday, June 19, 2009

Oh, I Get It

racism, obama, birther, biden, citizenship, united states, president,
For a long time now, I've been wondering what exactly it is Birthers hope to gain. (In case you are not familiar with the term, Birthers are wingnuts absolutely convinced that Obama is not a natural born citizen. They hope to remove him from the presidency based on this "fact".)

For the sake of argument, suppose that (despite the claims being repeatedly debunked) Obama did turn out not to be a "natural born citizen" and was impeached or resigned. What happens next? It's not like McCain or Palin or Reagan's ghost become president, Joe Biden does. How would that be any better from the wingnut point of view? Joe Biden is, if anything, more liberal than Obama. He is however, an old white guy . . .

Oh, I get it.


  1. Oh Jesus, what a thought, Biden as President. I love the guy, but man, he is a bit off.

  2. Then, finally, it will be good to be a white man again - seriously, these past couple of months have been really tough on us.

  3. I'm not at all convinced that the extreme wingnuts understand how our system works. They probably do think that McCain would finally have the opportunity that was stolen from him... and that's supposing that they've thought about it at all.

    Hardly matters, though; if Obama were removed and Biden took his place, they'd immediately turn their venom on Biden. It doesn't make any difference whether he'd be any good at the job, or what his policy goals would be, or even whether he's a person of Good Moral Character(tm). What matters is that he's on the wrong team.

    They treat politics like professional sports; no matter what your team is doing, you have to support them and oppose the other guys. (Another problem is that a lot of these people have no concept of "rivals" - all they understand are friends and enemies.)

  4. Obama should have done himself a favour and shot that fly in the face; that would have earned him some new supporters.

  5. Actually I am not so sure about that. I am not saying I believe the "birthers". However if they were correct it is not likely that Biden would become president. If Obamma were not a natural born citizen then he was never entitled to assume the office. That means Joe Biden, who wasn't elected at all, was never legally the vice president. What would happen after that is a mystery. Technically the court could put the blame on the Democratic party for not properly vetting their candidate. This would be the optimum case for the birthers because then the election would have to go to the candidate with the next highest vote count, John McCain. I am not saying the court would do this but in the event of a Constitutional crisis which is what this would be, it is the most legal option.

    The problem is that McCain is also not a natural born citizen. He was born in Panama. Congress passed a resolution saying that he qualifies to be president anyway, but a congressional resolution does not trump the constitution and the court could and should rule McCain inelligible. So those two account for the electoral vote, after that we would have to go to the popular vote. The next highest candidates in the popular vote were Bob Barr and Ralph Nader, one of these would be next in line. The current Republican party wouldn't like Barr much more than Nader but I believe Nader actually had more votes anyway. Something tells me that if they actually succeded in their challenge to Obamma they would like "President Nader" much much less.

  6. Here's another thought- suppose Obama and Biden are disqualified and they simply go through the line of succession. That would make Pelosi president.

    The sound of every conservative's head exploding in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

  7. Ryk;

    on this one, i think i have to agree with PF - if Obama isn't qualified to take office, the *entire election* would be (i think, based on a conversation with a Law professor...) null and void. at least, that is the precedent set (or *a* precedent set - i am not any sort of Law student, and i am going off what i was told) before the Civil War, and again during the Spanish-American war, with State Reps to Congress. i don't know if it has ever happened with Senators, that they were not properly "vetted" (in the case of the Reps, in one it was because it wasn't "pure" white and this came out after he had been in office a few months - at the time, non-white people weren't allowed to be elected in most states. the other was, IIRC and am not confusing it with something totally different, a man who held, or had held, citizenship somewhere else, but had claimed he was an American Citizen. Senators and Reps don't have to be "natural born", just citizens...)

    in both cases, the person who would becom Rep in the event of death or whatever took over the role until new elections were held. so if someone somehow "proved" that Obama wasn't a "natural born American" (which is the dumbest phrase EVER - there are tons of "natural citizens" who are born in other countries, like, oh, on MILITARY BASES), Pelosi would President while new elections were called. and probably be able to run for Pres, if she wanted. i cannot remember if that would count as a term for the term-limit thing... i know that when a Pres died and the VP took over it counted as a term, but this might be considered different, because she would only be assuming the office Pro Tem, as it were...

    then again, i (and the professor) could be wrong and totally full of shit...
    i needs to find me a Constitutional Lawyer to talk with about it (Fitrakes is an awsome professor and an awsome guy, but he's a criminal lawyer)


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