Monday, December 29, 2008

Not In Front of the Children!

Let's review the instructions on how to witness (beat over the head with a bible until they beg for mercy, or agree with you to make you shut the hell up) to an atheist. You'll note that no one seems to have consulted, or indeed spoken to, an actual atheist.

Just for the record, atheists don't believe in any deity at all. We don't know how the universe got started (nor do we need to, answers for everything is the believer's problem, not ours), but we know it wasn't some bearded dude in a white robe yelling, "Let there be light!" We believe that tomorrow is no guarantee, the afterlife is a lie, so you better get out there and live today. We also believe that god does not provide, prayers are not answered and there are no guardian angels, so we need to help each other, because there is no other help coming.

This is different from agnostics, those who believe that there might be a god, but they're not entirely sure, and they certainly don't know what religion to pick. Theists definitively believe in god, but may not necessarily have picked a religion or specific belief set.

Onward to the forced conversions!

OP: Is there an effective way to reach Atheists? Many people I know on other forums, are either atheistic, agnostic, or non-religious in general. They quite often rely on logical thinking over faith. I love the implication that while atheists are capable of logical thought, accepting Christ as your personal savior renders any kind of thought impossible. That's not quite a point in favor of converting in my book. OP probably shouldn't mention this to potential converts at first. Can someone please help? I want to witness to some non-religious friends.... I call this harrassing, and I certainly wouldn't call the OP "friend" after that.

Adoration cannot even articulate the basic tenents of his own faith. (Being incapable of thought is a bitch!): Here's my question:How do I form arguments/answers to an unbelievers statement that God doesn't exist...therefore Christianity has no validity.Or if they say "Prove to me that God exists". How would you answer? Seriously, you cannot explain to me why you believe god exists? That's pretty freakin' basic, buddy! I can tell you why I don't think god exists.

John 321 appears to be talking about . . . well, I'm not sure, but probably not atheists: These people want God in a test tube from some science lab actually, that would be totally cool, but no, that's not what we want. Just give me something other than (a) I believe and so should you, or (b) it's right here in the bible that god exists, and the bible is absolutely true because god wrote it, and off we go in a circle's not happening! Remember they hated God first. what? how can I hate what I don't believe in? I don't hate Santa or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy, either. After planting the seed of the gospel it is God who gives the increase. Increase? Pay increase? Weight increase? What? Continue to pray for them but do it quietly and not in front of the children!

Whamo takes an approach popularized by police interrogators: I try to start more subtle: Get them to realize there is a creator first. How? I believe it's easier to witness for Jesus to someone that believes in a "higher power", or God, than someone with zero belief. probably true, but how are you planning on getting me to believe in anything at all?

Hilhill spouts the most commonly held belief evangelical christians have about atheists: In my experience there are very few true atheists, but rather anti-theists. Everyone knows that God exists. They can try to convince themselves that He doesn't because of their own personal stubborness or rebellion, but His Law is written on the heart of every man. Of course, they don't act like this and they will NEVER admit it, but they know God exists deep deep down, but they are just trying to ignore Him. Basically, Hilhill believes that no matter what I say, I truly do believe in god, I just don't feel like going to church or giving up my rebellion. We're all born knowing all about evangelical christianity, but we choose to ignore this knowledge and be muslims and jews and hindus and atheists.

Does anyone else see how ridiculous and insulting this belief is? It puts the atheist in the position of being a particularly disobediant dog. My dog knows damn well he isn't supposes to steal food off my plate, and for the most part, he doesn't. Every now and then, for reasons known only to him, he will attempt to take the food right off my plate while I'm eating from it. He knows I will punish him for this, and he does it anyway.

To Hilhill and people like her, I am less intelligent than my dog, because he only does this occassionally, and I do it every moment of every day. (Not related, but I keep typing "dog" as "god". Hee hee!)

I think Hilhill and her ilk hold this belief because it shores up her own: her own belief HAS to be right. Otherwise, she is wasting her life for this crap when she could be living it. If she allows herself for one moment to contemplate that I honestly do not believe in god, that I am happy, and that I am also a moral, good person despite my lack of belief, then she will have to confront the idea that she, too, could be happy without her restrictive faith.

Can you imagine spending every day running from the knowledge that you may well be deliberately and actively wasting your life? Yikes!

Hootmon starts out ok, and goes downhill from there: Depends on the source of their atheism. Dont apostrophe! assume they are a monolithic block of 'heathens' hey, thanks for that...
Some were raised in 'religious' households, and are atheist due to rebellion.
no, sorry. true atheists are not "atheist due to rebellion". some people claim to be atheists out of rebellion, but true atheists have a conversion moment, exactly like the ones described by christians. it's an "ah-ha!" kind of moment where you realize that even if you want to, you don't believe. That's not rebellion.

Some were raised in religion-free households and are atheist due to ignorance.
Sure, you find me a person on the US or anywhere else in the world, who has reached I dunno . . . 7 without hearing about some kind of religion. I'm waiting. Still not back yet? That's because 7 year old Jews and Muslims in the US can tell you all about Jesus. Trust me, there isn't anyone anywhere who is entirely ignorant of religion.

Some chose atheism due to 'logic'...ooh "logic". it's so ridiculous to think about things. who does that? why think when you can believe? The latter two groups are way easier to reach than the first one, but you need to approach them each on their own terms. I can't imagine how you approach the logic people. "Hey, tired of thinking and deciding for yourself? Jesus has a solution for you!" Ultimately, you need to show them how belief in any 'god' is a logical proposition, yeah, that must be quite the bit of sophistry. and then show how belief in the Christian God is the most logical of the available options. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I don't think this guy understands what "logical" means.

Mike reiterates the "they believe that just won't admit it" with a twist: It is interesting to note that the bible makes no effort whatsoever to prove God's existence. Neither do the Jason Bourne novels, the Lord of the Rings or the Wheel of Time series attempt to prove the existence of their characters. So what? I would echo what has already been said, everyone knows that God exists, some choose to pretend that they don't. Pray for them to lose whatever they are holding onto that damn logic again! that is coming between them and God.

Alhere seems a little confused on the definitions of "legal", "forensic" and "evidence". There are a number of lines of legal forensic evidence that could be presented.One would be that life is too complex to have come into existence by time, chance and random processes. really? how would you know? keep in mind, that while you may believe the universe is only 6000 years old, I believe it is billions if not trillions of years old, and trust me, everything that can happen is bound to happen at least once in all that time.

There is no way you could add information to the genetic machinery for increased complexity unless there was an intelligence designing and directing the adding of information. Alhere clearly doesn't know how evolution works. Not surprising, but the information doesn't get added to DNA by an outside source, it is selected by which orgamism lasts long enough to reproduce. Let's look at sickle cell anemia. In sickle cell anemia, the red blood cells are the shape of a sickle moon rather than being round. It is a horrible, painful disease that greatly reduces life expectancy, but it makes one immune to malaria. Malaria kills millions of children a year before their 5th birthdays. People with sickle cell anemia make it to adulthood. Therefore, in an evolutionary sense, sickle cell anemia is successful: people with it live long enough to reproduce. If you accept that there is no evolution, you must also accept that god created sickle cell anemia rather than simply making people immune to malaria. That's a hard position to defend, unless you like the idea of the sadistic god.

That leads to, well who is that intelligence then? From there you can point out that the Bible claims to be a message from that intelligence. so does the torah, the q'ran, and a number of other books. Ok, then how do I know that the Bible is really from the creator? There are a number of lines of evidence one can consider. Bible prophecy and its accurate fulfillment is strong evidence that the Bible is from that Creator. the bible, like many other books, is consistent within itself? that's amazing! There are hundreds of prophecies already accurately fulfilled and many more ready to be fulfilled in the end times. so, they haven't been fulfilled yet is what you are saying? The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ has strong legal evidence that it truly happened. "legal" evidence? what? The gospels are 4 eyewitness accounts of these events admissable in any court of law. no, they're not. simply because some guy, a couple thousand years ago, says he saw the same thing 3 other guys say they saw does not make it admissable in a court of law. I suggest reviewing the Rules of Evidence. There were over 500 eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus Christ available also. really? are they available today? did they write their testimony down? Secular historians recorded the fact of the existence of a man named Jesus Christ. doesn't make him the son of god.The dead sea scrolls attest to the accuracy of the manuscipts we now have. The writings of the early church fathers preserve virtually every verse in the Bible which affirms our current Bible.There is a start. to what?

Glory in Print takes the "all atheists are mass murderers" approach: I don't think there is anything you can do other than to plant the seed of the gospel and pray for them...I have debated over 100 atheist you counted? and I found one thing real fast apparently not that fast, you did debate 100 of them. unless Glory in Print debated 100 atheists at once. they are not seeking truth not your truth, anyway, they love darkness rather than light we're evil!, they will reject the truth at all cost it's that logic! we just can't give up the logic!...And not to mention the fact that alot of atheist have a vile hatred for God, and for Christians i love how these idiots think that because a person gets really annoyed about being preached at, they must hate god. there's no other explanation...Now when I talk to an atheist I don't even acknowledge there their unbelief and I tell them it doesen't matter if they don't believe in God, because God will judge them regardless of there unbelief then I share the gospel with them. so there! i'll be right in the end, you'll see!

psalms 137:9 apparently didn't get the memo about thinking: What is wrong with logical thought? jesus demands that you think about nothing! BTW, I looked up psalms 137:9, and now I am very afraid of this poster: he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

buzzardhut, a moderator on the raptureready message boards, gives psalms 137:9 the memo: Logic blurs at the metaphysical yeah, what the fuck does that mean?

I'm giving up there. Apparently, my brain is the reason I can't believe. Not sure why god gave me a brain . . . and now I'm back to atheism.


  1. WHY do you insist on tormenting me with all of this insistence about Jason being fictional...?

  2. Oh, look at my illiterate rambling. Excellent use of "insist" and "insistence" in the same sentence. Writing FAIL.

  3. Ah, Jasoneists, always trying to convert me with their Jasonibles and action films!

  4. And, after reading the illiterate rants of the "thinking is bad" crowd, you strike me as positively Tolkienien!

  5. Damn. I was going for Tolkienesque. Maybe next time...

  6. I missed the opportunity for a "que"? AAAAHHHH!

  7. Sure, but a double -ien is a price above rubies!

  8. and why oh why is my font size bigger?

  9. ...did you buy one of those font size increasing things from an infomercial?

  10. When asked his thoughts on athiests, God replied, "I don't believe in them"

    sorry. it's one of my fav jokes :p

  11. waltzinexile: smiling bob strikes again!

    denelian: my favorite joke:

    a woman is waiting in line at the pearly gates for peter to process them. peter asks the first man, "what religion?", the man replies, "Lutheran" and peter says, "room 37, please be quiet as you go by room 6".

    the next man is catholic, and peter instructs, "room 12, please be quiet as you go by room 6."

    when the woman reaches the front of the line, she tells peter she is anglican, and he says, "room 17, please be quiet as you go by room 6."

    the woman pauses, and then asks, "why do we have to be quiet while we go by room 6?"

    peter replies, "room 6 is the baptists. they think they're the only ones here."

  12. wow. that is a seriously great joke. i'm going to have to share with my (athiest) dad! thanx :)


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