Monday, April 27, 2009

From the If It Rhymes, It's Poetry School of Thought

poetry, evangelism, religion, god, jesus, stupid, atheism, atheist,
I used to love poetry, then I read this.

Consider the Evidence, my Atheistic Friend "atheistic"?

By: Maxine M.

Are you one who puts the subject of God as far as you can from your mind? i think about it all the time. hello, i blog about asshats like you on a regular basis.
You’re considered a “good” that has to be the first "poetic" use of sarcastiquotes. person but towards anything religious or spiritual you’re not inclined i gotta be me.
Seeing so much hurt and injustice all around, IF there is a God, He must be blind or he's a sadistic asshole. or not nearly as omnipotent as you say.

Something happened when you were young…something you could never accept or understand oh, c'mon! the "atheists were all hurt by god as a child" meme? we haven't retired that yet? most US atheists were christians in their childhoods and into adulthood. we do not have some traumatic childhood experience that caused us to abandon god. yeesh.
A hurt so deep that couldn’t possibly have happened if a sovereign God was in command
A victim in childhood…of life’s ever insidious destructive demands that hurt my brain

So you hardened your heart & rejected even His very existence no, i lack a god belief. i'm not freakin' pharoah. (whose heart was hardened by god, btw.)
You laugh at those who pray to this FATHER with devoted persistence no, mostly I shake my head in bemusement.
Thinking you’ll be less vulnerable if you never expect Divine assistance i certainly won't be waiting around for things to happen. instead, i'll actually be doing something about it.

But stop!! Just LOOK in the mirror & think…give a reasonable explanation if you can
To whatever theories YOU have as to the origin of man
Because human existence cannot be denied…living out a normal life-span i'm guessing "living out a normal life-span" was put in to make it rhyme, because it certainly makes no sense as a part of that sentence. and yes, evolution does explain the origin of man. quite nicely.

But WHERE did it start? How DID this complex body of ours come to be? evolution. repeat after me: evolushun.
And don’t the very heavens declare that a Divine Creator created you & me? creation proves the creator? sorry, no.
The earth and all that’s above or beneath it…all the beauty in nature we can see it's amazing, isn't it? still doesn't prove god.

Is your theory EVOLUTION, a cosmic explosion or a mutation of a cell?
But how could CHANCE make man DIFFERENT from an animal? poetic misunderstanding of evolution does not prove god. Diverse species distinctly excel
Was it luck or fate that put the sun in the sky…established a conscience as well the sun was there before us. life developed as it did on this planet in reaction to what was already there.

How could an accident or single cell organism have brought all this into being?
All those theories require SOMETHING to start with…are you still disagreeing? that "something" still doesn't prove god.
Only an all POWERFUL OMNIPOTENT God can create from NOTHING…the universe all agreeing no, the universe does not all agree.

How could an unplanned event establish veracity, truth and wisdom? no, but human consciousness would.
Where could the higher complex thought process of humans come from? the workings of the human brain. duh.
If we evolved from apes, WHY are there still apes…wouldn’t they all have had to succumb? *headdesk* we did not evolve from apes, apes and humans share a common ancestor.

Do your theories explain how a baby grows & moves in the womb? yes, actually.
How the seasons come and go and, at an APPOINTED time, that is caused by the earth's rotation around the sun. did you miss that day in the second grade? the wild flowers bloom
Doesn’t it all indicate a “MASTER PLAN” NO…this constant renewal of life that we will resume?

So the Creator says, “You have NO reason NOT to believe in Me, by that logic, I have no reason not to believe in Krishna, Odin or Zeus. just look at the sky
Search for Me!! Seek My face, you’ll find Me if you sincerely try now i know why i'm an atheist: i just haven't been trying hard enough.
Accept My Gift of Grace, become My child anytime BEFORE you die hypothetical bus

During those “HARDTIMES” you MISSED the message they were to convey god lets 6 year olds get raped to convey a message? he couldn't send a letter?
They were meant to show YOUR NEED of Me…BUT you went the other way i guess 6 year olds deserve to get raped
Just as the same warm sun melts butter but hardens clay worst analogy ever. i am dumber now for having seen it.

That pain, hurt and disappointment in your life…your humiliation at which cruel people would laugh which just proves how awesome god is
My own Son suffered that and MORE to die at Calvary…die on YOUR behalf
The sinless Son GIVEN for sinful man…at Adam’s fall, THIS the plan I would draft” god caused the fall, for one. for another, why would god have to sacrifice god to god in order to change a rule god made? my mind is now boggled.

Now could THAT be the reason you didn’t want to think about Him at all "jesus? who's that?"
It was easier to say He doesn’t EXIST than to respond to His inviting call yeesh
To face personal sin & short comings…PRIDE has built up a defensive wall atheists DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. we're not denying god to spite him even though we believe in him. not everyone is exactly like you, get used to it.

Easier to say “I know I’ll die one day, but like a dog and a fruit fly and a jellyfish. you are not a special little snowflake, get over it…just be in OBLIVION forever”
Ignoring that man has an IMORTAL if you're going to go allcaps on a word, at least spell it right soul…that we’ll live on, ceasing never
Uninformed that there’s a Judgment Day when the Lord will judge our every endeavor that's it. atheists have never heard of heaven and hell. sure.

So do you see how foolish it is to avoid a God who WILL have the last say? oddly, telling me that your imaginary friend is going to spank me is less than convincing.
BUT you are determined you are right…what a dangerous game to play!! more hypothetical bus
Now JUST for argument’s sake, let’s say you’re right & we both die one day

If you’re right & I’m wrong, we’ll just enter one long dark endless undiscerning night
But, OH the awful, dreadful anguish of an eternal Judgment plight
For there is NO 2nd chance…if YOU’RE WRONG & I’M RIGHT!! the big finish is Pascal's Wager. meh.


  1. That last hypothetical bus you list is more of a Pascal's wager. For some reason Christians think Pascal's wager is genius and very convincing.

  2. i can't figure out why the hypothetical bus and pascal's wager are supposed to be so convincing.

    i think the hypothetical bus is sort of a "trust me now and listen to me later" device.

    all in all, i'm stupider for having read that.

  3. your friend who doesn't use profanityApril 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM

    Logical question: How do you think the world began?

  4. logical answer: i'm not a physicist, i'm a legal secretary. the theory colloquially known as "big bang" isn't bad, though. there's a link in this post to universe beginning theories, if you want to learn more.

    the fact of the matter, little friend, is that unlike you, i don't need absolute answers to every possible question. I'm fine with not knowing things. I don't know how to perform neurosurgery, I don't know how to build cars, and I don't know how the universe "started" (some theories seem to imply it didn't start or that start isn't really the right word).

  5. Wow. I've heard of God-awful poetry, but this is the real thing. It's like an assemblage of every theistic fallacy ever conceived into one huge black hole of illogic (and dreadful writing). Great responses though.

  6. Your 'little friend'April 27, 2009 at 8:48 PM

    I didn't say that I 'need absolute answeres to every possible question.' So don't jump to conclusions.

    Anyways, you say that you don't REALLY believe in anything- but if you WERE going to believe in something, it would be the big bang.

    Here's what the big band says: Everything (umm... that would be NOTHING) came together, spun really fast, and then blew up and created... everything!

    Now that just doesn't seem logical.

  7. The tired implication that atheists are really disobedient children with our eyes shut and fingers in our ears going, "La, la, god, no god. Nope. Neener, neener...ah, no god." is just getting old. It just an appeal to your emotions to guilt you into feeling that way and mistake it for truth. And even if that were the case, don't they care about reasons why a person might be doing that? Sigh.

    Pascal's Wager is silly. What if they're wrong about Allah? There is a nice toasty eternity of damnation waiting for them yet, Christians don't lose sleep over it.

  8. What insults me more is the truly awful poetry. I mean, come on! The meter was all over the place.

    On the plus side, the use of capitals and exclamation marks is fully in accordance with Roy Cozy's guide on how to talk to atheists, so the Word must be getting out.

  9. the scansion was horrible.

    so was the logic. little internal consistancy. and, i would like to point out, the meter is wrong.

    when are people going to learn that it doesn't have to rhyme to be poetry? especially if it doesn't really rhyme...

  10. The big kick in the head, for me, is that using a Fundamentalist Christian definition of "Salvation", deciding to believe in God on a Pascal's Wager basis is inadequate.

    Fundies claim you have to "accept God as your personal Lord and Savior" (a point I still have YET to find anywhere in the Bible) in order to be saved. Choosing to believe in the existence of God to hedge a bet is hardly the same thing. Naturally, this distinction seems lost on most Fundamentalists, and the few who are capable of understanding it will then admit that they're trying to use Pascal's Wager as a "gateway theology" to get you to buy into the bullshit.

    Back in my believin' days, I once had a Pastor tell me that, as a "real" Christian, I should be 100% sure if I died today, I would go to Heaven. This always struck me as a fundamentally demotivating logic. I figured that a person ought not to assume any rewards in the afterlife and just strive for the best they can do "down here". Today, as a Non-Christian, I still embrace this theology.

    Mine is the inverse of Pascal's Wager - Screw your preconceived notions of God, do your best, and if turns out there is a God in the end, he might send you to Heaven. If he doesn't, he wasn't worth worshipping anyway and I would be unable to tolerate his presence. If it turns out he doesn't exist at all, you contributed as much as you could, rather than sitting on your ass awaiting for your false promises to be fulfilled.

  11. Were I God, I would smite the fuck out of this execrable "poet" for having the temerity to suggest that I ever spoke in such scansion-free, stylistically sterile and grammatically inept triplets:

    "That pain, hurt and disappointment in your life…your humiliation at which cruel people would laugh
    My own Son suffered that and MORE to die at Calvary…die on YOUR behalf
    The sinless Son GIVEN for sinful man…at Adam’s fall, THIS the plan I would draft”
    There's so much wrong with that stanza alone that even if I were God, with infinite time and expletives, I would still be unable to satisfactorily express how unbelievably shite it was.

    The fact that Maxine M continues to exist on the face of the earth proves conclusively that there is no God. No self-respecting deity would let her get away with that!

  12. Your 'little friend' said...
    I didn't say that I 'need absolute answeres to every possible question.' So don't jump to conclusions.

    Anyways, you say that you don't REALLY believe in anything- but if you WERE going to believe in something, it would be the big bang.

    Here's what the big band says: Everything (umm... that would be NOTHING) came together, spun really fast, and then blew up and created... everything!

    Now that just doesn't seem logical.
    First off, don't put words in my mouth. I said I don't know, and that I lack the knowledge base to make an informed decision on the issue.

    However, that is not what the big bang theory states. That's what Ray Comfort says the big bang states, which is an entirely different thing.

    What you did there is called a Strawman Fallacy. You built up a rather silly argument, attributed it to me, and then tore it down. Good for you, but all you did was display your ignorance.

    Thanks for playing.

  13. your 'little friend'April 28, 2009 at 1:12 PM

    I'm not finished.

    What you just used in your last comment is called an 'ad hominen attack'. It's where you attack the person instead of his arguement. So you pretty much refuted my arguement by attacking me, good job chap.

    You still haven't answered the question; the question is this: 'How was the world started?'

    All you've said so far is that you 'don't know'. So does that mean that you're open to sugestions? Or are you going to be ignorant with your own knowledge?

  14. *sigh* telling a person what logical fallacy they committed is not considered an ad hom. an ad hom would be if i called you a liar, or stupid or a criminal, thus implying that nothing you say can be trusted because you are a bad person.

    please learn the fallacies before you accuse people of them.

    how could a person be ignorant with their own knowledge? that doesn't even make sense. do you know how the brain works? what about DNA? are intimately familiar with the inner workings of your own DNA? do you know exactly how your computer works?

    every day every person on the planet, no matter how smart or educated, proceeds with ignorance. we are all ignorant about lots of things. there's simply too much to know to know it all.

    you, and everyone else on the planet, are totally fine with this. you're clearly living your life instead of being paralyzed by the weight of your own ignorance, so why is my ignorance on a very esoteric subject of so much interest to you?

    to put it another way "you can't prove how the universe got started" is not going to convert me. do you have any other strategies, or are you new at this?

  15. Um, listen up, Sparky.

    An ad hominem attack would be me saying, "You're wrong because you rape puppies." Saying, "You're wrong because your arguments are stupid and fallacious," is called "rhetoric."

    You might want to re-think what you're doing there...

  16. your 'little friend' SparkyApril 28, 2009 at 3:14 PM

    Alright, so I don't have a clue what I'm talking about. In fact, I'm new to this planet Earth, thank you for clearing things up for me.

    You STILL haven't answered the Q. All you've been doing is attacking me; you don't even know who I am or what I believe!

  17. I'm not attacking you, but I also don't let logical fallacies go. I already told you what I know and don't know. I don't know what started the universe, I don't think it's god, and certainly not the god of the bible, or any other holy book I've read. If I saw proof of god (other than the creation itself), I'd certainly accept it, but that's hardly belief.

  18. your 'little friend' SparkyApril 28, 2009 at 3:24 PM

    It goes like this:

    You're pretty much saying that you haven't a clue what you believe, but you KNOW that there is no God.

    Hmm... Why's that?

  19. your 'little friend' SparkyApril 28, 2009 at 3:32 PM

    Alright, you're finally getting somewhere...

    Now you're a person looking for proof, that's great!

    Here we go...

    If you saw a coke (you know, like the good old-fashion coke) would you say that someone created the coke, or that it just came into existence?

  20. no, i've never said I "know" there is no god. i've never seen proof of god. the bible isn't proof of god. your feelings aren't proof of god. existence proves nothing, because i've seen good scientific explanations for existence that don't rest on stories thousands of years old.

    you're trying the new twist on the watchmaker argument. it's fallacious and silly, and i'll even explain why.

    i can follow the delivery truck back to the manufacturing plant and watch people making coke cans right in front of me. i can touch those people, smell those people, see those people, hear those people, and if we're particularly friendly, i can taste them.

    can i watch god making anything? no. do we have pictures of god making anything? no. can i smell or taste or hear god? no.

    so, we've gone through two Comfort evangelization strategies, just for practice do you want to try another? the ten commandments exercise is always fun. presumptuous, but since we're apparently "friends", go for it.

  21. your 'little friend'April 28, 2009 at 9:42 PM

    Well, to tell you the truth, I hadn't even heard of Ray Comfort until yesterday, so all of this is coming from your dear lil'o friend.

    Explain to me how Atheists can look around them, and not see that someone created everything... I look at the computer I'm typing on right now, and I KNOW that someone created it!

    Besides, there are TONS of faults with the 'big bang' theory and evolution. If you wish, I can tell them to you, but chances are, even if I refute everything evolution has ever standed for, you'd still be ignorant.

  22. your 'little friend'April 28, 2009 at 9:55 PM

    This is refering to your earlier point:

    What if I showed you a picture of God? Would you believe then?

    I'll answer that for you: No. You wouldn't believe. Even if I provided you with every proof that God exists, you still wouldn't believe.

    But one day you WILL believe, and I hope you're on the right side, or you'll be 'Forever In Hell'. Christ says that "EVERY knee will bow and every tongue will confess..."

  23. Oooh! Oooh!

    Can we get the Romans Road? It's been, like, forever since I've heard the ol', "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god," followed by, "But the free gift of god is eternal life through Jesus," progression.

    I love that one. It's so much fun.

  24. Here's what the big band says: Everything (umm... that would be NOTHING) came together, spun really fast, and then blew up and created... everything!

    Now that just doesn't seem logical.
    Which big band says that, anyway? Glenn Miller? The Brian Setzer Orchestra?

    Anyway, I just read something in the comments on Pharyngula that seems germane to this issue. It's one of those things that I've known, but it was put in a way that I'd never quite seen it put before. I don't feel like giving the exact quote, so I'm just going to spin off of it.

    The theistic argument for the existence of the universe creates an a priori first cause, then claims that lack of any better argument be default means they win. They then further claim that the scientific/naturalistic explanations for the existence of the universe can't possibly be true because, basically, "something cannot come from nothing."

    However, the theistic first cause is defeated by this argument, too. It's a cop-out to claim that the creator never came from anything and was around for all eternity. Therefore, the godhead had to come from something. But without the godhead there is nothing. Therefore, "something" came from "nothing." Which, according to the theistic arguments of those who espouse Intelligent Design Creationism and other such bullshit, is impossible.

    This, of course, leads to the turtles all the way down scenario wherein we keep creating First Causes in an ever lengthening chain to the heavens.

    What you are doing, in effect, is creating a modified ontological argument. "I can conceive of a First Cause," you say, "But I cannot conceive of anything but. Therefore there must be a First Cause." This argument, of course, says nothing about the origins of the universe, but quite a bit about limits of your own imagination. The fact that there can be no concrete answer, at least right now, also tells us a great deal about the limits of science. But considering that the Indian philosopher Kanada and the Greek philosopher Democritus came up with some form of atomic theory about 2500 years ago and yet we didn't get anywhere close to discovering atoms themselves until the 19th Century and took the first steps towards the modern understanding of the makeup of the atom in 1897, I'm not too worried about such things.

    I don't actually need to know what existed before the universe began, anyway. The mounting piles of evidence of the things we can see, feel, and measure are forcing god far enough in to the gaps that it doesn't matter. It seems like every day there's a new discovery in biology, chemistry, physics, or astronomy that gives ammunition to science. And the only responses the literalist crowd can offer are the same tired Bible verses or arguments against scientific theories from a century ago that fell out of favor with scientists decades ago when better evidence and instruments arrived.

    You say the heavens declare god's glory. But we've peered back to the origins of the universe with ever more powerful instruments and have yet to see the face of the divine. Instead we've found far more interesting mysteries and puzzles to solve.

  25. What if I showed you a picture of God? Would you believe then?

    I'll answer that for you: No. You wouldn't believe. Even if I provided you with every proof that God exists, you still wouldn't believe.

    I suppose you're right in one sense. If you said that I did not, in fact, have a niece, and then I showed you my niece, you wouldn't "believe" in my niece, you would accept the verified existence of my niece.

    You seem to be saying that if god appeared before me right now, I'd shut my eyes, put my hands over my ears and start shouting LALALALA, which is just silly.

    But one day you WILL believe, and I hope you're on the right side, or you'll be 'Forever In Hell'. Christ says that "EVERY knee will bow and every tongue will confess...Can you predict the future? Of course not. You have no idea what I will or will not do. Having lost the argument, you are now resorting to threatening me with your special book.

    This is the fallacy of argument to consequences: do it, or suffer. it can be convincing in certain situations, but that doesn't make it any less fallacious.

    By the way, I call bullshit on the idea that you have not heard of Ray Comfort. You have been giving me, word for word, all of Ray's Way of the Master evangelism arguments. If you really have not heard of Mr. Comfort, then whoever taught you those arguments certainly has.

  26. oh, and geds wins the thread for disproving god with god.

  27. Geds:
    wild applause! that was beautiful!!!


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Forever in Hell by Personal Failure is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
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