Premillenial dispensationalism is one of those odd, fringey fundy things that takes seeing to believe, though I wouldn't blame you if you saw it, and still didn't believe. Believing in premillenial dispensationalism requires having a world view so odd, so far removed from the real world, that encountering the real world can only happen through the lens of belief.
This is what happens when you view the world through the lens of a particularly bizarre belief (from the Slacktivist.):
Hence the career of Rep. Michelle Bachmann. She's not a demagogue trying to manipulate the rubes on the barking mad religious lunatic fringe. She is herself one of them. She's a true believer. Bachmann is both a member of Congress and, in her mind, a member of the Tribulation Force.
This explains Bachmann's current obsession: stopping the attempt to create a one-world global currency. Matthew Yglesias links to Bachmann's discussion of this one-currency conspiracy with talk-show host Glenn Beck, pointing out that the effort Bachmann opposes is both imaginary and impossible.
Matt's bewilderment here is understandable. His problem here, though, is that he's restricting his discussion to reality and that's not where Bachmann is coming from.
This latest article from Rapture Ready, The World's Response to the Rapture, by Joseph Chambers, is another example of such a distortion of understanding. As far as I can tell, Mr. Chambers views the unsaved as being entirely unlike the saved. I don't mean just in terms of salvation, I mean in every way possible.
Background: according to this belief system, the end of the world begins with every Real True Christian(tm) being taking bodily to heaven at once. Children who have not yet entered puberty will also be taken- mostly because even RTCs can't really get behind tormenting 2 year olds. So, the event Mr. Chambers is discussing is a few million (at best) adults disappearing right in front of our eyes, along with every child in world. All of them. Yeah. I'm guessing those of us left behind might make it 5 minutes before initiating a nuclear holocaust that reduces the entire planet to an asteroid belt.
Mr. Chambers has a slightly different view on things, mostly because he thinks the bible predicts a whole 7 years of inexplicable events following the Rapture.
There is a growing hatred for anything that centers on Jesus Christ. wow- persecution porn in the first sentence! dude, you're over 75% of the population of the US, you are not being oppressed. It apostrophe s like the world wants to promote a “god” idea that can fit all belief systems, but trashes the God of Christianity and the idea of the Son of God as a Savior of all men. There is an even greater hatred for the idea of a Rapture we think you're clinically insane and pity you, we don't hate you, where a large number of people are going to be caught up and supernaturally removed. More and more of the leading ministers in Biblical circles are denying the Rapture and turning to theological ideas that suggest a Christian dominion of the earth rather than escape from the earth. Much of the Evangelical world and all of the Catholic leadership are dead set against a sudden exodus of the chosen saints of God. funny, we get no mention of how Lutherans, anglicans, episcopalians, greek orthodox, russian orthodox, etc. feel about this. i guess they don't count.
When you understand the multitude of different ideas relating to End Times events, it is challenging to describe the many different reactions that may well follow the great escape of the saints. no, it's not at all challenging. no one will notice the rapture of the few million adults because we'll be just a little distracted by the rapture of EVERY CHILD ON EARTH. The Rapture may well serve to unite the religious world and force them to forge a united reaction. right after they stop looking looking for their children. There are not many religious leaders left that do not have a growing distaste for Bible-believing fundamentalism. yes, yes, yes, you're persecuted. we get it. poor you. Every major religious trend has served to build a consensus against what is being called “narrow-minded fundamentalism.” ya know, if everyone hates you, there might be something to it. just sayin'. Building a broad-based movement to bring the Catholic, the Evangelical, and the Pentecostals together well, we managed one more group of christians, but what about all the rest? demands that no theology is important enough to divide the church world. if it really were the "one true faith", wouldn't everybody know that? there's dozens of different "one true faiths", just within christianity, doesn't that say something about the concept of the "one true faith"?
We now have a religious atmosphere that drives the fundamental truths to the back room. considering what else is said to occur in back rooms, that might be an unfortunate metaphor. That is the crowd that is going to be the Raptured saints. who's the crowd? the truths are the crowd? what? It would be a great relief to many religious personalities if we would just disappear. oh, it's not just religious personalities. We will! yeah! Holiness of lifestyle is hated. BWAHAHAHAHAHA what holiness? christians and atheists act the same, except atheists are less likely to get divorced. if we're going by holiness of lifestyle, shouldn't the atheists get raptured? Ministers that still preach and teach separation from the trashy and carnal world are considered cultic and bothersome. if you actually would separate from the world, we'd all be happier. The music of the average church in the acceptable church growth world is unclean and repulsive. it's got african rythms! black, scary rythms! The atmosphere in the Jewish synagogues when Jesus came the first time is a fair example of today’s church atmosphere. they're giving out high interest loans in churches now? Genuine truth has fallen in the streets. THUMP! Most ministers that still continue to preach the Rapture also trash solid Biblical holiness living. nobody is good enough for this guy!
. . .
The Rapture is going to make an incredible stir throughout the world. not for the reasons you think. nobody would be impressed that a few million fundy nutters disappeared because they'd be distracted by the fact that EVERY CHILD ON THE PLANET IS GONE. This is one of the greatest moments in human history yes, the suffering of billions of parents, quickly followed by the horrors of the Tribulation will be a wonderful moment in human history. and the result will be an incredible crisis. ya think? The media will explore every detail. in the five minutes before the nuclear holocaust, the ones that aren't in the fetal position, refusing to blink Interviews will be granted to all sides i'm not even sure what that means and many different explanations will be given. how many explanations for EVERY CHILD ON THE PLANET IS GONE could there be? The paranormal world will have a field day with many bizarre stories. ufologists will be having more fun. Somehow the majority of the world will be convinced to carry on and to join the new day of liberty and license. so, EVERY CHILD ON THE PLANET IS GONE, and we're all going to party?
This is seriously offensive. This guy seems to think that most people on the planet regret not getting abortions and would be thrilled if their children disappeared. Have you ever seen one of those pleas from the parents of a missing child? Now imagine the entire world like that.
Under the heading of "The Catholic Church is Teh Evul":
The best way to deal with a crisis is to celebrate it like we celebrated 911 and Katrina? what? and the celebration will begin. catholic church and celebration are not ideas that any sane person would put in the same sentence. The One World Church will quickly develop a speakers’ bureau to appear on all news channels. the news channels being run by the always childless, i guess. Let’s consider what may be their explanation. the mayans were right! I believe they will proclaim that a supernatural miracle has occurred. Religious fanatics and rebellious fundamentalists have been removed by an act of God so that the world can finally experience peace. god wanted peace so he left behind muslim extremists? that seems a little . . . odd. is Mr. Chambers saying muslim extremists will be raptured, too? They will say that these people were no different than the terrorists within the Muslim world. other than the bombs. They were like the Taliban of Afghanistan they are like that, just without the bombs. and we have been spared their hindrance to our planned wonderful world by this miracle of their removal. there is so much wrong with this idea, i can barely scratch the surface.
Forerunners of the Antichrist excellent band name will see this as their golden opportunity and they will join in with the religious One World Church. They will herald the coming revelation of their “Christ” and great paranormal events will become commonplace. As the idea that this “Christ” is waiting to be manifest begins to grip the world, great excitement to His coming will develop. Great speakers with demonic appeal obama! will conduct rallies all over the world. They will build excitement to the point of hysteria. Incredible miracles of healing (i.e., blinded eyes opened) and mass healing events will occur. This new church world of the inclusive church will explode. It will be religious mania. in other words, the fake christian church will actually deliver what the real christian church promised? ummm . . . what?
This new religion will be as emotionally real as the true Pentecost of the past. but not really as real? The only thing missing will be the restrictions of commandments and standards. it's going to be a little hard to have a "christian" religion without the ten commandments. episcopalians are seriously liberal, but not even they have abandoned the restrictions against murder and stealing. It will be the greatest day of mass religious events in history. like unto what mass religious events in history? The music is already written, the african music with scary black rythms! the singers have already trained, and these campaigns will feature the best. hey, at least while we're all deranged with grief, we'll have a nice concert to go to. The present contemporary, rap, rock, funk, and other ungodly (black!) music are all the music of the Antichrist he's black! and are ready to inoculate the world. doesn't "inoculate" mean protect against disease? The multitudes will line up to be baptized and marked as the worshippers of this new “Christ.” They will actually believe that he is the true appearing of the real Christ. dude, he can heal the sick and he's got a good backup band. why not?
The rest of this article devolves into a discussion of the persecution the RTCs so desperately want, but won't experience because they'll be raptured. Always missing out on the good stuff, I guess.
Wow, there is a lot going on there. I'm constantly amused by this thing I keep seeing about how these premil. guys are now feeling persecuted from within their own church. It's a really interesting line that they are drawing, that if your church thinks you're crazy it's not you, it's the church! Come join us!
ReplyDeleteThat said, as a dirty pagan mother, if my little one just freaking disappeared? I'd tear apart the heavens with my bare hands to get her back. I'm not sure why these guys think that the unsaved have no actual human emotions. Do they actually think that? Because it makes no sense.
He is what Fred would call a demagogue. This writing is just meant to rally the troops. The RTC's keep to themselves and will only read or listen to anything that agrees with their presuppositions. That is why Fox News is still on the air. They don't consider what it means for all the children of the world to be missing, they only think about the prophecy and what is going to happen next. They listen to the "leaders" about how they are being persecuted even when they themselves have never been and then speak as if they are being persecuted. It really is just sad, they live in a very small world of their own making and are trying to drag everyone else into it.
ReplyDeleteExactly, if the niece i raised went missing, nothing would stop me from getting her back- not god himself.
ReplyDeleteI don't think fundys really, truly believe that stuff. Um, do you ever check out Accidental Historian? He's done a couple of posts about this lately, and he's a former fundy so he would know.
Heck I just read further into his article and found proof that they don't think about what they are saying:
ReplyDeleteLittle children will be led to a living faith as moms and dads, sometimes only mothers and sometimes only dads, help their families prepare for the worst.
See he thinks there will still be little children even though they were all raptured. There is no thought going on here, just preaching and feeling, as Whateverman would say.
I think he may be referring to postRapture children there.
ReplyDelete"demagogue": a word I never use, because I never know if i am using it right. Thing is, I don't think rapturefreaks would know what to do with themselves if they did achieve total saturation- they are so into the persecution.
Post Rapture children? At best they will be 7 by the end of it. They would never know what is going on. It is still a retarded thought.
ReplyDeleteI do read Accidental Historian, and he is helping me understand where on earth these people are coming from. It's funny, like learning another language. You have to learn to think in it before you really understand it. Maybe we need to teach more of these people our language.
ReplyDeleteBeamStalk: I have read stories of parents at the Rapture Ready message boards screaming and crying at their 2 year olds because they weren't certain they had accepted christ. 2 years old!
ReplyDeleteLeigh: Isn't AH a treasure? He could talk about nothing but that and I'd be okay with it. It's fascinating. Unfortunately, I have seen, over and over, atheists/agnostics/others attempting to "teach a new language" to the fundys and the fundys just don't want to, or aren't prepared to, hear it.
Remember, we're evil, rotten liberal elites. Which means we're interested in learning about another person's viewpoint, even if we don't subscribe to it. For a fundy, the thought of even attempting to understand the viewpoint of a nonChristian is tantamount to rejecting Jesus.
Not too surprising as we are talking about people who consider a lustful thought equal to committing adultery, or an angry thought equal to murder. "Thought as deed" makes any stray or different thought as dangerous as a rabid tiger.
PF: I've heard fundies talk about that too, which is weird because most other religions give a sort of grace period to small children. It's always kind of freaked me out, that these people are worried about the immortal soul of a child.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it's kind of scary to start talking to people who don't share your faith or something like it, so I can see that initally anyone might be unreceptive. But eventually you will see that everyone is basically saying the same thing. If you aren't saying the same thing? Reevaluate your religious language.
God's omnipotent, but he can't figure out that a 2 year old is incapable of both sin and informed consent? Uh, yeah.
ReplyDeleteIt shouldn't be scary to discuss one's faith. It should be like discussing favorite music or movies. I hate that while I wouldn't be at all alarmed to tell someone that NIN is my favorite band or Pi is my favorite movie, I don't tell people in real life that I am an atheist.
Stupid stupid PF, NIN really? You need to come to full understanding of good music. Put away such childish things as Nine Inch Nails and embrace the goodness of Rancid or even Green Day. Proclaiming NIN as your favorite is heresy, be glad I left my witch burning kit at home today.
ReplyDeleteI have seen those posts too, they are disgusting but the person posting is, in my little opinion that means nothing, disturbed in the head. I was just going by their prophetic Left Behind books that takes up all the little kids and then has the world react like nothing happened.
Right there with you. I breeze over what the necklace I wear means if someone asks, because I really don't dare go there. With most people that's a conversation that is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteOff topic but this is the first blog I've read here and it had an almost 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' feel to it and I just loved it. I only understood about a quarter of it though because I'm just joining this world of blogging and talking about religious belief and 'fundies' and I'm still trying to learn the lingo :)
ReplyDeleteLovely people,
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to me that folks who identify themselves as "progressive, tolerant, liberal, secular, rational, intellectual, lover's of the creation (instead of the creator)," take so much pleasure in distorting and spinning the words and belief's of their counterparts.
So much so, that they begin the name calling..."fundy, weird, out-of-touch, retarded, demagogue," and so on. Real "tolerant" guys. Where do you get off?
The way I see it, the opposing world views have an obvious ocean between them. One can look at that diversity in view point as a table for discussion, or...like the folks here...a battle ground. Hypocrisy takes the latter position.
How can those who claim the mantle of "tolerance, liberal, accepting" do so, when in reality, they mock and shout down those of a different opinion?
Bottom line is this. Two plus two equals four, no matter if any of you say it equals five. Your argument might be that "well, that is my truth, therefore it is just as valid as your truth." Guess what? You're flat wrong. Truth is truth. It's not relative. Truth is absolute.
Christianity is about truth, not tolerance. And, it's not the Christian who is intolerant. It's God who is intolerant. God is intolerant of sin, because He is pure and Holy. I challenge you to wrap your mind around that concept.
He cannot abide the evil in this world. If you have a problem with that, can't wait to see you argue it with Him, when your turn comes to do so, kneeling (and you will) before the throne of the God of this Universe.
It's about God's Word, not the words of His believer's, who are nothing more than broken people, doing their best to come to Christ, in the midst of their brokenness, and to tell the other's about salvation, no matter how feeble that might look to you.
And yes, there is division within the church, just as it was prophesied, and folks, it's going to get much worse. Apostacy has been prophesied and we're seeing it now.
The division gives fodder for those of non-belief, as witnessed by this thread. To be on that side, reveling in the dissension, is nothing to throw a party over.
In the end, every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess...that Jesus Christ is Lord.
That goes for believer's and non-believer's alike.
It has been prophesied, and to date, the Bible has been 100% accurate in each and every one of it's prophetic predictions (some 688), in hair-splitting detail. This fulfillment of prophecy goes from the rise and fall of earthly kingdoms and empires, to the tiniest details of the lives of individuals, from shepherds to Kings.
Doubters might talk to University professors in archeology, theology, geology, and so on. These fulfilled prophecies have been substantiantied by secular folks from every walk of science.
So, look it up and laugh it up.
And, go ahead with the mocking and ridiculing of the faithful. Just make sure you have an ice cold brewski to wash down the locust, and a naked chick to violate when those days come because the King of kings, and the Lord of lords is coming, and very soon. Hope you'll be able to look Him in the face, without shame, when that day comes.
Maranatha,
Dana
Yes, Dana, we are intolerant of your intolerance, get over it.
ReplyDeleteImtherabbit: Thanks for stopping by! A comparison to MST3000 is a huge compliment in my book. I would highly suggest going over to the Slacktivist's and checking out the longest book review ever, on the Left Behind series. It's amazing, funny and incredibly informative. It's also written by an evangelical christian, so his insights are just amazing.
Dana, you make a lot of assertions would you care to back them up with evidence? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so where is it?
ReplyDeleteI like this comment though:
It has been prophesied, and to date, the Bible has been 100% accurate in each and every one of it's prophetic predictions (some 688), in hair-splitting detail. This fulfillment of prophecy goes from the rise and fall of earthly kingdoms and empires, to the tiniest details of the lives of individuals, from shepherds to Kings.
100% accurate? If I can show you that it hasn't been 100% then what would you say?
God told Isaiah to tell Ahaz, the King of Judah, not to be concerned about Rezin (the king of Syria) or Pekah (the king of Israel). But according to 2 Chr.28:5-6 "God delivered him [Ahaz] into the hand of the king of Syria; and they smote him, and carried away a great multitude of them captives, and brought them to Damascus. And he was also delivered into the hand of the king of Israel, who smote him with a great slaughter." Isaiah 7:3-7
Isaiah 13:19-20 claim Babylon will never be inhabited again. I guess no one told Saddam Hussein that.
Isaiah 19:5 The river of Egypt will dry up. The Nile has never dried up.
Shall I go on? There are plenty more. Notice these were just from Isaiah.
There is a list of 207 prophecies that never came true or you could argue haven't yet come true, at the skeptics annotated Bible.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/proph/long.html
Dana also what is meant by very soon? Christians have been saying that for 2000 years, why are you so right and all the Christians before you wrong?
ReplyDelete[Thanks for your good blog. For those who think they've been exposed to just about everything, I'd like to share the following non-copyrighted documentation that I found on the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site.]
ReplyDeletePRETRIB RAPTURE DISHONESTY
by Dave MacPherson
When I began my research in 1970 into the exact beginnings of the pretribulation rapture belief still held by many evangelicals, I assumed that the rapture debate involved only "godly scholars with honest differences." The paper you are now reading reveals why I gave up that assumption many years ago. With this introduction-of-sorts in mind, let's take a long look at the pervasive dishonesty throughout the history of the 179-year-old pretrib rapture theory:
Mid-1820's - German scholar Max Weremchuk's work "John Nelson Darby" (1992) included what Benjamin Newton revealed about John Darby in the mid-1820's during his pre-Brethren days as an Anglican clergyman:
"J. N. Darby was a very subtle man. He had been a lawyer, or at least educated for the law. Once he wanted his Archbishop to pursue a certain course, when he (J.N.D.) was a curate in his diocese. He wrote a letter, therefore, saying he had been educated for the law, knew what the legal course would properly be; and then having written that clearly, he mystified the remainder of the letter both in word and in handwriting, and ended up by saying: You see, my Lord, such being the legal aspect of the case it would unquestionably be the best course for you to pursue, etc. And the Archbishop couldn't make out the legal part, but rested on Darby's word and did as he advised. Darby afterwards laughed over it, and indeed he showed a copy of the letter to Tregelles. This is not mentioned in the Archbishop's biography, but in it is the fact that he spoke of Darby as 'the most subtle man in my diocese.'"
This reminds me of an 1834 letter by Darby which spoke of the "Lord's coming." Darby added, concerning this coming, that "the thoughts are new" and that during any teaching of it "it would not be well to have it so clear." Darby's deviousness here was his usage of a centuries-old term - "Lord's coming" - to cover up his desire to sneak the new pretrib idea into existing posttrib groups in very low-profile ways!
1830 - In the spring of 1830 a young Scottish lassie, Margaret Macdonald, came up with the novel notion of a catching up [rapture] of Spirit-filled "church" members before Antichrist's "trial" [tribulation] of non-Spirit-filled "church" members - the first instance I've found of clear "pretrib" teaching (which was part of a partial rapture scheme). In Sep. 1830 "The Morning Watch" (a journal produced by London preacher Edward Irving and his "Irvingite" followers, some of whom had visited Margaret a few weeks earlier) began repeating her original thoughts and even her wording but gave her no credit - the first plagiarism I've found in pretrib history. Darby was still defending posttrib in Dec. 1830.
Pretrib promoters have long known the significance of her main point: a rapture of "church" members BEFORE the revealing of Antichrist. Which is why John Walvoord quoted nothing in her revelation, why Thomas Ice habitually skips over her main point but quotes lines BEFORE and AFTER it, and why Hal Lindsey muddies up her main point so he can (falsely) assert that she was NOT a pretribber! (Google "X-Raying Margaret" for info about her.)
NOTE: The development of the 1800's is thoroughly documented in my book "The Rapture Plot." You'll learn that Darby wasn't original on any chief aspect of dispensationalism (but plagiarized the Irvingites); that pretrib was initially based on only OT and NT symbols and not clear Scripture; that the symbols included the Jewish feasts, the two witnesses, and the man child - symbols adopted by Darby during most of his career; that Darby's later reminiscences exaggerated his earliest pretrib development, and that today's defenders such as Thomas Ice have further overstated what Darby overstated; that Irvingism didn't need later reminiscences to "clarify" its own early pretrib development; that ancient hymns and even the writings of the Reformers were subtly revised to make it appear they had taught pretrib; and that after Darby's death a clever revisionist quietly made many changes in early Irvingite and Brethren documents in order to steal credit for pretrib away from the Irvingites (and their female inspiration!) and give it dishonestly to Darby! (Before continuing, Google the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site and read "America's Pretrib Rapture Traffickers" - a sample of the current exciting internetism!)
1920 - Charles Trumbull's book "The Life Story of C. I. Scofield" told only the dispensationally-correct side of his life. Two recent books, Joseph Canfield's "The Incredible Scofield and His Book" (1988) and David Lutzweiler's "DispenSinsationalism: C. I. Scofield's Life and Errors" (2006), reveal the other side including his being jailed as a forger, dishonestly giving himself a non-conferred "D.D." etc. etc.!
1967 - Brethren scholar Harold Rowdon's "The Origins of the Brethren" quoted Darby associate Lord Congleton who was "disgusted with...the falseness" of Darby's accounts of things. Rowdon also quoted historian William Neatby who said that others felt that "the time-honoured method of single combat" was as good as anything "to elicit the truth" from Darby. (In other words, knock it out of him!)
1972 - Tim LaHaye's "The Beginning of the End" (1972) plagiarized Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970).
1976 - Charles Ryrie"s "The Living End" (1976) plagiarized Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970) and "There's A New World Coming" (1973).
1976 - After John Walvoord's "The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation" (1976) brutally twisted Robert Gundry's "The Church and the Tribulation" (1973), Gundry composed and circulated a 35-page open letter to Walvoord which repeatedly charged the Dallas Seminary president with "misrepresentation," "misrepresentations" (and variations)!
1981 - "The Fundamentalist Phenomenon" (1981) by Jerry Falwell, Ed Dobson, and Ed Hindson heavily plagiarized George Dollar's 1973 book "A History of Fundamentalism in America."
1984 - After a prof at Southeastern College of the Assemblies of God in Florida told me that the No. 2 man at the AG world headquarters in Missouri - Joseph Flower - had the label of posttrib, my wife and I had two hour-long chats with him. He verified what I had been told. But we were dumbstruck when he told us that although AG ministers are required to promote pretrib, privately they can believe any other rapture view! Flower said that his father, an AG co-founder, was also posttrib. We also learned while in Springfield that when the AG's were organized in 1914, the initial group was divided between posttribs and pretribs - but that the pretribs shouted louder which resulted in that denomination officially adopting pretrib! (For details on this and other pretrib double-mindedness, Google "Pretrib Hypocrisy.")
1989 - Since 1989 Thomas Ice has referred to the "Mac-theory" (his reference to my research), giving the impression there's no solid evidence that Macdonald was the real pretrib originator. But Ice carefully conceals the fact that no eminent church historian of the 1800's - whether Plymouth Brethren or Irvingite - credited Darby with pretrib. Instead, they uniformly credited leading Irvingite sources, all of which upheld the Scottish lassie's contribution! Moreover, I'm hardly the only modern scholar seeing significance in Irvingism's territory. Others in recent years who have noted it, but who haven't mined it as deeply as I have, include Fuller, Ladd, Bass, Rowdon, Sandeen, and Gundry.
1989 - Greg Bahnsen and Kenneth Gentry produced evidence in 1989 that Lindsey's book "The Road to Holocaust" (1989) plagiarized "Dominion Theology" (1988) by H. Wayne House and Thomas Ice.
1990 - David Jeremiah's and C. C. Carlson's "Escape the Coming Night" (1990) massively plagiarized Lindsey's 1973 book "There's A New World Coming." (For more info, type in "Thieves' Marketing" on MSN or Google.)
1991 - Paul Lee Tan's "A Pictorial Guide to Bible Prophecy" (1991) plagiarized large amounts of Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970).
1991 - Militant Darby defender R. A. Huebner claimed in 1991 to have found new evidence that Darby was pretrib as early as 1827 - three years before Macdonald. Halfway through his book Huebner suddenly admitted that his evidence could refer to something completely un-rapturesque. Even though Thomas Ice admitted to me that he knew that Huebner had "blown" his so-called evidence, prevaricator Ice continues to tell the world that Huebner has "positive evidence" that Darby was pretrib in 1827! Ice also conceals the fact that Darby, in his own 1827 paper, was looking for only "the restitution of all things" and "the times of refreshing" (Acts 3:19,21) - which Scofield doesn't see fulfilled until AFTER a future tribulation!
1992 - Tim LaHaye's "No Fear of the Storm" (1992) plagiarized Walvoord's "The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation" (1976).
1992 - This was when the Los Angeles Times revealed that "The Magog Factor" (1992) by Hal Lindsey and Chuck Missler was a monstrous plagiarism of Prof. Edwin Yamauchi's scholarly 1982 work "Foes from the Northern Frontier." Four months after this exposure, Lindsey and Missler stated they had stopped publishing and promoting their book. But in 1996 Dr. Yamauchi learned that the dishonest duo had issued a 1995 book called "The Magog Invasion" which still had a substantial amount of the same plagiarism! (If Lindsey and Missler ever need hernia operations, I predict that the doctors will tell them not to lift anything for a long time!)
1994 - In 1996 it was revealed that Lindsey's "Planet Earth - 2000 A.D. (1994) had an embarrassing amount of plagiarism of a Texe Marrs book titled "Mystery Mark of the New Age" (1988).
1995 - My book "The Rapture Plot" reveals the dishonesty in Darby's reprinted works. It's often hard to tell who wrote the footnotes and when. It's easy to believe that the notes, and also unsigned phrases inside brackets within the text, were a devious attempt by someone (Darby? his editor?) to portray a Darby far more developed in pretrib thinking than he actually had been at the time. I found that some of the "additives" had been taken from Darby's much later works, when he was more developed, and placed next to or inside his earliest works! One footnote by Darby's editor, attached to Darby's 1830 paper, actually stated that "it was not worth while either suppressing or changing" anything in this work! If his editor wasn't open to such dishonesty, how can we explain such a statement?
Post-1995 - Thomas Ice's article "Inventor of False Pre-Trib Rapture History" states that my book "The Rapture Plot" is "only one of the latest in a series of revisions of his original discourse...." And David Reagan in his article "The Origin of the Concept of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture" repeats Ice's falsehood by claiming that I have republished my first book "over the years under several different titles."
Although my book repeats a bit of the Macdonald origin of pretrib (for new readers), all of my books are packed with new material not found in my other works. For some clarification, "The Incredible Cover-Up" has photos of pertinent places in Ireland, Scotland, and England not found in my later books plus several chapters dealing with theological arguments; "The Great Rapture Hoax" quotes scholars throughout the Church Age, covers Scofield's hidden side, a section on Powerscourt, the 1980 election, the Jupiter Effect, Gundry's change, and more theological arguments; "The Rapture Plot" reveals for the first time the Great Evangelical Revisionism/Robbery and includes appendices on miscopying, plagiarism, etc.; and "The Three R's" shows hypocritical evangelicals employing occultic beliefs they say they have long opposed!
So Thomas Ice etc. are twisting truth when they claim I am only a revisionist. Do they really think that my publishers DON'T know what I've previously written?
Re arguments, Google "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts" and also obtain "The End Times Passover" and "Why Christians Will Suffer 'Great Tribulation' " (AuthorHouse, 2006) by media personality Joe Ortiz.
1997 - For years Harvest House Publishers has owned and been republishing Lindsey's book "There's A New World Coming." During the same time Lindsey has been peddling his reportedly "new" book "Apocalyse Code" (1997), much of which is word-for-word the same as the Harvest House book - and there's no notice of "simultaneous publishing" in either book! Talk about pretrib greed!
1997 - This is the year I discovered that more than 50 pages of Dallas Seminary professor Merrill Unger's book "Beyond the Crystal Ball" (Moody Press, 1973) constituted a colossal plagiarism of Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" (1970). After Lindsey's book came out, Unger had complained that Lindsey's book had plagiarized his classroom lecture notes. It was evident that Unger felt that he too should cash in on his own lectures! (The detailed account of this Dallas Seminary dishonesty is revealed in my 1998 book "The Three R's.")
1998 - Tim LaHaye's "Understanding the Last Days" (1998) plagiarized Lindsey's "There's A New World Coming" (1973).
1999 - More than 200 pages (out of 396 pages) in Lindsey's 1999 book "Vanished Into Thin Air" are virtually carbon copies of pages in his 1983 book "The Rapture" - with no "updated" or "revised" notice included! Lindsey has done the same nervy thing with several of his books, something that has allowed him to live in million-dollar-plus homes and drive cars like Ferraris! (See my Google articles "Deceiving and Being Deceived" and "Thieves' Marketing" for further evidence of this notably pretrib vice.)
2000 - A Jack Van Impe article "The Moment After" (2000) plagiarized Grant Jeffrey's book "Final Warning" (1995).
2001 - Since 2001 my web article "Walvoord's Posttrib 'Varieties' - Plus" has been exposing his devious muddying up of posttrib waters. In some of his books he invented four "distinct" and "contradictory" posttrib divisions, claiming that they are either "classic" or "semiclassic" or "futurist" or "dispensational" - distinctions that disappear when analyzed! His "futurist" group holds to a literal future tribulation and a literal millennium but doesn't embrace "any day" imminency. But his "dispensational" group has the same non-imminency! Moreover, tribulational futurism is found in every group except the first one, and he somehow admitted that a literal millennium is in all four groups! On the other hand, it's the pretribs who consistently disagree with each other over their chief points and subpoints - but somehow end up agreeing that there will be a pretrib rapture! (See my chapter "A House Divided" in my book "The Incredible Cover-Up.")
2001 - Since my "Deceiving and Being Deceived" web item which exposed the claims for Pseudo-Ephraem" and "Morgan Edwards" as teachers of pretrib, there has been a piranha-like frenzy on the part of pretrib bodyguards and their duped groupies to "discover" almost anything before 1830 walking upright on two legs that seemed to have at least a remote hint of pretrib! (An exemplary poster boy for such pretrib practice is Grant Jeffrey. To get your money's worth, Google "Wily Jeffrey.")
FINALLY: Don't take my word for any of the above. Read my 300-page book "The Rapture Plot" which has a jillion more documented details on the long-hidden but now-revealed history of the dishonest, 179-year-old, fringe-British-invented, American-merchandised-until-the-real-bad-stuff-happens pretribulation rapture fad. If this book of mine doesn't "move" you, I will personally refund what you paid for it!
FOR PRETRIB RAPTURE REPEATERS
ReplyDeleteCongratulations! You are now fulfilling the Bible which says "Come now, and let us repeat together."
Be sure to repeat what Walvoord, Lindsey, LaHaye, Ice etc. repeat what their own teachers repeat what their own teachers repeat etc. etc. etc.!
Repeat that Christ's return is imminent because we're told to "watch" (Matt. 24, 25) for it. So is the "day of God" (II Pet. 3:12) - which you admit is at least 1000 years ahead - also imminent because we're told to be "looking for" it?
Also repeat the pretrib myths about the "Jewish wedding stages" and "Jewish feasts" (where's your "church/Israel dichotomy" now?) even though Christ and Paul knew nothing about a "pretrib stage" and neither did any official theological creed or organized church before 1830!
You should read "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" on the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site to find out why you shouldn't repeat everything your pretrib teachers repeat.
Do I have to repeat this?