Monday, March 30, 2009

Can We Say Disingenuous

religion, religious, morality, mormon, lds, homophobia, homosexual, marriage, tradition, traditional, gay, dna, rockwood, angela,

I would like to be upfront with you: when I offer you an argument, it's an argument I believe in. I truly believe it, I truly feel that way, and, when you read my words, you're getting an honest look at the way I think and feel. You're not getting unlimited access to my every thought, but the thoughts I share represent exactly what I really think.

I mention this, because in lurking around the bigotsphere, I came across this gem from our friend, Beetlebabee, aka Angela Rockwood, Director of/for/in the DNA. She not only admits to being disingenuous* at best in her arguments against same sex marriage, she encourages others to follow her down the yellow brick road of hiding one's true intentions.

Comment by beetlebabee on March 8, 2009 at 6:09pm

In order to be effective in the marriage debate arena
i.e., making sure homosexuals remain second class citizens, I think it's important to focus on love more than we focus on the sin. is this some new definition of "love" I am unfamiliar with? this, from the woman who has said, repeatedly, that marriage is not about love? pick a side, angie! While rejecting the behavior, Christ never rejected the soul. love the sinner, hate the sin. as if gay were a sin. way to frame the argument, ange. It doesn't do us any good to focus on "those sinners" with our fingers pointed out. it might do you some good to focus on "those sinners" with your fingers pointed inward, however. We've got to do a better job of articulating our position beyond just "That's nasty" or "that's evil". that's right, angie's not above reducing homosexuals to second class citizens because gay sex makes her feel squicky, and apparently she can't stop thinking about it.

There are a whole array of points that are infinitely more persuasive than opining on someone else's level of righteousness. glad you've noticed that, but it is highly disingenuous to go out there and propound on the other arguments, when you're real problem is that the bible, or the book of mormon, told you so. You know what I mean? be as insincere as possible? We're all sinners at some point, but those gays just won't quit! so let's move beyond that and talk about the other arguments that are out there. not the arguments that really represent our viewpoint, the other ones.

When I debate, I never use the word "sodomite" for instance because it's unbelievably rude?, because it pidgeonholes or possibly pigeonholes me immediately as someone who believes in religion as the basis for my argument. no, it outs you as a nasty bigot. who the fuck says "sodomite" anymore, other than Westboro Baptist? and if you're not familiar with Westboro, just type "god hates fags" into a search engine and see what comes up. While that is very true that you're a nasty bigot?, religion is my basis and my rock good for you, leave the rest of us out of it., it's not the only proof out there supporting traditional marriage, religion isn't proof. it's faith. two different things. and the reality is, that hearts and minds close to the truth very quickly if you take religion as your main defense. because the rest of us can tell the difference between truth and religion. of course, we're not mormons.

For me, Religion is my basic foundation. i'm glad for you, now stop trying to legislate it all over the rest of us. Because I believe in the scriptures and, again i'm glad for you, now stop trying to legislate it all over the rest of us. , and the word of God, I know that homosexuality is not the path to happiness. not for you. not for me, either. wtf does that have to do with anything? Because I know that, I know that studies and other proofs will automatically follow. oh, dear. the bible/book of mormon said so, therefore, there MUST be proof out there somewhere. we just need to find it. this is called "confirmation bias" ange. it's not how science works, it's not how logical argumentation works, but thanks for sharing. So, I focus on a broader base, truth. so, religion isn't truth? i'm getting a little confused here. Because everyone is searching for truth. except people who already know it, like you.

People will be much more open to our line of thinking if we come at it from the arena of truth, rather than overt religion well, yeah, but that's still disingenuous.....even though at heart they are the same. at your heart, not at mine.

just my two cents. i added at least another $1.50. i'm generous like that.

*disingenuous, for those unfamiliar with the word and lazy about the clicking, means lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere


  1. I seem to recall the BOM saying a total of one verse about Homosexuality, in 2 Nephi, and all it said was "Homosexuality is evil" or something otherwise succinct.

    How in the world can that be construed as anything but bigotry? Ah, the religious carte blanche.

  2. The BoM also states that you will know the saved from the unsaved by the color of their skin- guess which skin tone means evil?

  3. C'mon man, quit acting all surprised at disingenuous arguments and hypocrisy from religious fundamentalists. That's like water for a fish, like air for a bird, like Palmolive for Marge,

  4. OOOOOHHHH!!! I know this one!!

    The color is: NOT-WHITE!

    What do I win?!

  5. i am... schocked, yeah, thats the word... that she wouldn't admit that there is ANYTHING out there that can be better at religion that something.

    but isn't what she's trying to do essentially conversion by disinguenous means, and not allowed (similiar to the "convert and you get this shiny lamp)

  6. I don't really think Mormons have an ethical issue with that. Ten Lies I Told as a Mormon Missionary.

  7. We've got to do a better job of articulating our position beyond just "That's nasty" or "that's evil".

    Because no one straight ever has anal sex.

  8. I love it how she draws from the fact that people react badly to her arguments being a matter of delivery and method, rather than her actual points being flawed. If you have to hide your true motives, they must be dark and unacceptable. Isn't this obvious?

  9. Come on now, FrodoSaves, you know that if you're enjoying teh seks, you're a pervert. It's only godly if it's missionary and you can recite the pledge of allegiance at any point throughout.

    WWR: it's not her, it's us. we're just naturally opposed to the religions, ridiculously so. i can see encouraging people to study logic and argumentation so they can present their arguments better, but hiding your true arguments because you know damn well they aren't valid is the height of intellectual bankruptcy.


Comments are for you guys, not for me. Say what you will. Don't feel compelled to stay on topic, I enjoy it when comments enter Tangentville or veer off into Non Sequitur Town. Just keep it polite, okay?

I am attempting to use blogger's new comment spam feature. If you don't immediately see your comment, it is being held in spam, I will get it out next time I check the filter. Unless you are Dennis Markuze, in which case you're never seeing your comment.

Creative Commons License
Forever in Hell by Personal Failure is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.
Based on a work at