Thursday, March 19, 2009

Proving God Through Evil

religion, religious, suffering, evil, good, christian, jesus, god, atheism, atheist, atheophobia, asshat
Trying to deal with the existence of evil is a dangerous game for a Christian to play. Some do it quite well. The Slacktivist handles the evil question every so often with delicacy and panache. (Yes, I have quite the crush on Fred, which is a little embarrasing for an atheist.) Most Christians, however, are not Fred. That leads to the following:

Where is God when a little girl gets raped - Part 3

by Rod Holmgren

Nobody except for Ray Comfort hates atheists more than Rod Holmgren. In fact, you'd think atheists burned down Mr. Holmgren's house, with his dog in it, while anally raping his grandmother and pouring sugar into the gas tank of his classic Mustang. Mr. Holmgren is clearly more intelligent than Mr. Comfort, but that's not really saying much.

A fellow traveller in life’s journey, F, once stated, “But since you believe in [God] you must blame him [for] floods, earthquakes and of course rapes. Of course, all these things happen because THERE IS NO GOD.”

actually, all those things happen because they happen. saying they happen because there is no god implies that if there were a god, they wouldn't happen, which is rather silly, but i agree with the point i think F was trying to make.

Another atheist wrote, “for what purpose could God possibly permit so much evil to be in the world?” good question. nobody, not even Fred, really has an answer for that.

First of all, to find the answer to, Where is God?, one does not ask an atheist. indeed, if one wants to know the location of god, it would be rather useless to ask someone that doesn't believe in god, but . . . Atheists are alienated in their relationship with their Creator.

For the last fucking time, we are not in a relationship with the nonexistent skydaddy, alienated or otherwise, any more than Christians are in an alienated relationship with Odin or Thor. Stop it.

Getting an accurate depiction of God from an atheist is like getting an accurate rendering of the justice system from a career criminal.

Actually, a career criminal would be the best source of accurate information possible for how the justice system really works. Who could possibly know better?

Therefore, the following is garnered both from what the Bible tells us about God look, using the bible to prove god to an atheist is both bad form and pointless. yes, i understand that you like your skydaddy book. i prefer the harry potter series. i consider them to be equally valid, in case you didn't pick that up. and suffering as well as from Christians themselves as they describe their journey through tragedy and suffering. anecdotal evidence is not evidence. it's nice and all that the skydaddy makes you feel better, but what does that prove? What we find from those sources i think it should be written "sources" is that:

. God is with believers in their suffering. for future reference, if you're ever with me while i'm being raped, don't stand there, "with me in my suffering". DO SOMETHING! i expect that of any human being, i expect a bit more out of an omnipotent being.

- Whether we sense His presence or not just cause you can't feel it, doesn't mean it's not there is not logic, God is with us as any loving parent is with a child who has just been hurt. god is omnipotent and omniscient. i don't expect a loving parent to necessarily know when their child is being hurt, i do expect an omnipotent and omniscient being to know. and, again, i expect a little more than comfort afterwards. unless you think being a good parent involves watching your child get raped and then stepping in to comfort them afterwards. I happen to know firsthand about years of childhood sexual assault. i'm sorry about that. no one should have to experience such a thing. While I wasn’t a Christian until I was thirty-years-old, I can see clearly how it was God’s tender mercy that sustained me through that and much more as life went on. I don’t expect His presence to end - ever! okay. i don't get the atheophobia, but i do get the extreme need for christianity. this is why i never try to defaith people. some people really need their beliefs.

Mr. Holmgren, you are more than welcome to believe in any god(s) you want. However, please stop attacking atheists. We aren't hurting you. It isn't necessary to attack us. Please take a page from my pagan friends who believe what they believe, even pray for me, but never take a swipe at my lack of belief. (Thanks, guys!)

God is able and does bring good out of the things that satan uses to destroy us.

This argument is the theological version of "every black cloud has a silver lining". while it's nice that you can find good in bad things, it doesn't prove god.

- God is working in us the good that is spoken of in Romans 8:29. That good is the development of Christ-like character. God is able to bring that about in all the things that may happen to us during our lives.. God is with the meek, the humble, the merciful. so why aren't you meek and humble?

- “God opposes the proud, but give grace to the humble.” Therefore atheists should not be surprise or confounded when Christians seem to experience tragedy in a way that is different from pagans or atheists. i have yet to see christians experiencing tragedy in any way differently from atheists and pagans. “We do not grieve as those who have no hope.”. i have hope, Mr. Holmgren. In fact, it is atheism that gives me hope. His presence sustains those who love Him and follow Him.

this goes on for quite some time until we get to this little gem:

First, God used the Nazi Holocaust as a means to reunite the nation of Israel, as was prophesied 3,000 years earlier. God is going to bring to fulfilment His plans for humanity and the gates of hell will not be able to stand against it. Still to come is the destruction of nations that try to remove Israel from the world stage, even as Israel becomes like "a huge stone around the neck of the world." This also was predicted thousands of years ago.

great, merciful yhwh killed 6 million Jews, 2-3 million Soviet POWs, 2 million ethnic Poles, 1.5 million Romani, 250,000 disabled persons, 200,000 Freemasons, 15,000 homosexuals, and 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses to bring about prophecy. That's good? That's desirable?

Oh, sorry, guys, you got in the way of my prophecy. You understand, I'm sure.

I'm sure the families of those 15 MILLION dead people were just thrilled to be a part of it all.

. . .

Or, as with atheists, it might be physical or emotional safety that we depend upon. who doesn't depend upon physical and emotional safety? as if christians are in the habit of living in burning buildings. In fact, atheists seem personally offended when tragic things happen, even in someone else’s life.

yes, we are capable of empathy, asshat. That's what it's called when you hurt for someone else. you know who doesn't get upset when they hear about a child being raped? a sociopath, that's who. you are condemning us for the sin of empathy. that's really something.

. . .

There are so many benefits to suffering, there are so many obvious answers to the question of “Why would God allow evil in the world?” that it’s surprising that atheists seem dazed, confused and oblivious to any of them. okay, this I gotta see.

For example:. Suffering brings into a relationship with God, those who have been predestined to such a journey.- You never know that God is all you need until God is all that you have.”. oh, dear, we have a calvinist here.


sorry for the shouting, but wading through pages of bullshit to find out that this asshat thinks everything is predetermined by god, including my atheism, and he's still abusing me for my atheism, is really frustrating.

i give up. you're on your own if you want to continue with this bullshit.


  1. Your reference to Harry Potter as a source of Truth might earn you one less RSS subscriber.

    I'm just saying...

  2. The "all part of god's plan" argument really irritates me. It's so transparent and pathetic, particularly the corollary "Suffering brings into a relationship with God, those who have been predestined to such a journey". It sounds an awful lot like Mother Teresa, don't you think? Incidentally, you should probably include the full range of European Theater WWII deaths as an element of the beast that wrought the Holocaust.

  3. Actually, I only use Harry Potter because it's got WITCHES! and WIZARDS! and WITCHCRAFT! and it makes fundys' heads explode, especially when you compare it to the bible.

    Lord of the Rings is clearly superior.

    Yeah, I wanted to include all the soldiers, but I couldn't find the figures on it.

  4. I think it would be hard to exaggerate. Did you know that as a percentage of population, the Netherlands lost the most people in WWII?

  5. The Netherlands? Why? I read "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", but that was over 20 years ago (wow), and I don't remember anything about the Netherlands.

    Who hates the Dutch?

    Oh, right, Hitler.


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