marriage, prop 8, mormon, morality, love, homophobia, homosexual, lds, gay, tradition, traditional,
I figured out the problem with trying to convince a Mormon Prop 8 supporter that we should not deny the love of two people, gay or straight.
To mormons, marriage and love are unrelated concepts.
Mormon women are encouraged to marry not the man they love, but the man who will get them the closest to the Celestial Kingdom (mormon heaven).
From exmormon.org:
In the car on the way back to school, she told me her story. They had dated for 3 years, then she was ready to get married but he wasn’t ready yet. So she dated other people and found a guy to marry. She had thought about waiting for this young man until he was ready to get married, but didn’t know if he would actually decide to marry her when he was ready to marry. Then came the comment that just about did me in. She said that looking at both of these guys, she chose the guy she eventually married because he would be able to get her closer to the celestial kingdom than the young man she dated for 3 years and loved! She didn’t have the same feelings for her husband as she did for her old boyfriend, but by golly she was sure to get closer to the celestial kingdom! Her heart was still hurting.
To a people for whom love is just another word, trying to discuss Prop 8 in terms of love is like trying to discuss art with an alien. Your perspectives are simply too divergent.
Just as a refresher: the divorce rate for mormons is 24%. The divorce rate for atheists is 21%. This is especially remarkable when you consider that while atheists would be the least likely to be ashamed of being divorced, mormons should be the most ashamed of divorce. So why are more mormons divorced?
Perhaps because love and marriage should be very closely related concepts?
Saturday, February 28, 2009
Friday, February 27, 2009
Rush Limbaugh IS That High
rush limbaugh, rush, misogyny, feminism, feminist, stupid, asshat,
Rush Limbaugh can't figure out why women hate him.
Really.
I'm serious.
He just noticed this. He can't figure out why.
Yes the same Rush Limbaugh who said that "Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."
and
"We're not sexists, we're chauvinists -- we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want."
and
"She comes to me when she wants to be fed. And after I feed her -- guess what -- she's off to wherever she wants to be in the house, until the next time she gets hungry. She's smart enough to know she can't feed herself. She's actually a very smart cat. She gets loved. She gets adoration. She gets petted. She gets fed. And she doesn't have to do anything for it, which is why I say this cat's taught me more about women, than anything my whole life." --on his cat
In fact, he has convened a "summit" to try and figure out why women hate him.
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to do the Female Summit today, by the way. We will do the Female Summit in the third hour of the program today, and the reason we're going to do the Female Summit is Public Policy Polling in North Carolina published a national poll on your beloved host, El Rushbo. They found I've got 46% approval, 43% disapproval, but I got a huge gender gap. I wonder why? My gender gap between men and women is 31%. Thirty-one percent is the differential between male approval and female approval. The fact that any women at all approve of Rush is incredibly disturbing. So yesterday I said, "What can I do about this? Exercise your Second Amendment rights? Stop exercising your First Amendment rights?What could be done? What is the explanation for this? you're a misogynistic asshat. for starters."
'Cause I'm just a harmless i wish little compared to what? fuzzball. I'm the sweetest, the nicest, most generous, compassionate i don't think he knows what any of those words mean, confident, cocky i'll grant you "confident" and "cocky", but why do you think women like cocky?, I-know-what-I-want-and-I-know-what's-right-and-I'm-going-to-say-what-I-think again, why do think this would be an attractive trait to any sane person? kind of guy you could run into, and I'm saying to myself, "What could be the explanation for the gender gap? probably something unfortunate about men. I should try to understand it myself." Why not do a Female Summit, with breakout groups and the whole thing, like Obama does, on Social Security and electricity and procurement. So we're going to do a Female Summit. It may take more than one day, depending on the answers we get. i'm guessing any answer you get that doesn't affirm your own opinion of yourself won't be heard anyway, so this should take about 3 minutes. I've got a lot so far in e-mail, by the way. But what will happen, we're going to take calls only from women in the last hour of the program today. Very rarely do I define requirements for callers. isn't there some commandment about lying? But today, I am going to do so. For the purposes of the Female Summit, it would make no sense for women to call and say how much they love me. clearly, they don't.
We already know that there are many who do, and we know why. We need to hear from women who don't particularly love me, who don't particularly like me, or from women who do like me who know women who hate me me!me!me! , who can tell me why. you judge women on looks alone. you think a female cat and a human woman are the same thing. you think chauvanism is what women want. But more than that, we need calls from women who will have suggestions for what they think I should do to close the gender gap SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP.-- and, I must add, some of you may think I should not worry about it. You can say that, too. The only thing off-limits is fawning love, adulation, devotion. since when? We'll save that for Open Line Friday. But today, the Female Summit must offer constructive criticism and hopefully some solutions a rope, a goat and a train., then I'll take it. You know, on a call-by-call, case-by-case basis. So what will happen right before the final hour, Snerdley will screen all the calls -- or he'll broom 'em. if they aren't displaying the proper catly attitude.
At the break at the top of the hour for the third hour begins is when we will start taking calls only from women. Now, we've done this before. We are highly trained broadcast specialists BWAHAHAHAHAHA, so we know it's going to happen. A bunch of men going to call trying to disguise their voices. what?! We'll catch you. A bunch of men are going to put their girlfriends or wives on the phone to fool us so that when it's their turn to get on the air the guy will actually be there. apparently, i don't listen to the Rush Limbaugh often enough. (well, ever.) I want to warn you: anybody caught trying to perpetrate a trick on this program and your host will be met with in a most direct, and what you might consider unkind, way. you'll hang up the phone? The first moment that I sniff deceit, you're gone. I will break my rule of never hanging up on anyone yeah, right. that's why you screen calls. asshat and do it today. We're serious about the Female Summit. you don't understand the meaning of "serious", either?
It's a crisis point in our country today so we'd better figure out why the girlies don't love the rush!, and we haven't got time to fool around with jokers, practical jokers. he is absolutely convinced of this bizarre men-pretending-to-be-women scenario, isn't he? I'm the king of those. that would explain a lot. I spot them before anybody knows they're coming. it's Rush's superpower! So get ready. Gear up for the final hour today being the first ever Rush Limbaugh Female Summit on the EIB Network. Now, this is not nitpicking, because Obama thinks that there are 57 states. what the hell does that have to do with anything? (if you include US territories and protectorates, you get 57) He said that during the campaign. But I need to ask you people a question: Who invented the automobile? what does that have to do with women hating Rush? WTF? Oh! One thing about the Female Summit: sorry, no transsexuals. you're getting warmer, Rush. We're not going to have anybody who's had an addadictomy we call those sex reassignment surgeries, or gender reassignment surgeries. and anyone who had an "addadictomy" would be a MAN, and therefore ineligible for the Female Summit. Asshat., and we're not going to have anybody who's had a chopadickoffamy. you're so disgusting. We're going to have women from birth.
Nothing against transgenders, nothing against transsexuals oh, puhlease. you hate transexuals like you hate latinos, blacks and women, but that doesn't apply because they weren't polled. Only women were polled in this. the pollsters checked to make sure they were registered as women at birth? really? So if you had an addadictomy, you can't call here and say you used to be a woman. It ain't gonna work. And if you had a chopadickoffamy and you used to be a guy, you cannot call here and say you're now a woman. You can try it, but it isn't gonna work. how many transexuals does Rush think listen to his show? i'd be surprised if it were one. and he or she is probably doing it for research. Now, we ask that all of you be honest. We ask that all of you be sincere in our effort here to close the El Rushbo gender gap based on the polling from Public Policy Polling. I just got a note: "Can employees participate in the All Female Summit?" Can employees participate? Well, I assume so, but the employees must go through the regular channels. There will be no preferential treatment shown to callers. except taking nontransexual female callers only.
[more on how you just can't fool Rush Limbaugh]
We're looking for stories from women who actually have big problems with me and are able to explain to me what they are so I can react to it. by insulting them, no doubt We're trying to get to the bottom of something here. We want this to work, we want this to have an effective climax pffft! so that there is something at the end of the hour from which I can learn and maybe improve and get better. We won't know 'til we start taking phone calls. But if you try to fake us out, if you try to -- by the way, there's nothing wrong with transgenders and transsexuals, but no transgenders and no transsexuals. If you've had an addadictomy, please don't call. If you've had a chopadickoffamy, please don't call. again! We'll let you in on another occasion. This is for women who have been born women and stay that way. please, please explain this to me? did Rush recently find himself fucking a hooker with a dick or something?
this caller is a fan who attempts level some valid criticism at rush, with no success:
CALLER: First I want to congratulate you on your success in radio and thanks for letting me be a part of your summit. *gag* I agree with your politics, but I don't routinely listen to your show because of certain things you say. The first time I listened to your show you were criticizing a liberal woman's blog, and I was fine with your criticism, and at the end of your criticism said something to the effect of, "Well, at the end of the day she's a babe so it doesn't really matter anyways," and you were referring to the columnist. After you said she was "a babe," you know, in my mind and maybe in the mind of many other women listening, you totally diminished what you had said previously about her column. yes, exactly. you reduced her to her looks, stating outright that it doesn't matter what she does, as long as she's pretty. women don't like that, Rush. And, you know, in this time I think, you know, conservatives, we really need to pull together. And you, Rush, as a great leader and speaker for conservatism, you don't need to dilute your message with who's hot and who's not. You know, leave that to someone else who has nothing better to say. Rush doesn't have anything better to say, but good advice.
RUSH: Well, but what if the fact that being a babe is the most notable thing about a particular liberal blogger? it's not. but even if it were, then don't say anything at all. I mean, I'm looking for something nice to say after having ripped a liberal blogger for being wrong, because she's a liberal, she can't possibly be right, and so I'm looking for something positive. yeah, i'm sure that complete dismissal of her as anything other than an object of lust was motivated purely by your natural instinct to fairness, rush. If she's a babe, she's a babe. What is...? You know men can't help but notice these things. I guess you're saying, "Yeah, go ahead and notice, but don't mention it." yeah. it's fine to notice what someone looks like, you don't have to make it the only issue. asshat.
CALLER: Yeah. I mean, you know, she might not take that as a compliment. i sure wouldn't take being dismissed that way as a compliment. I'm not saying I agree with liberals, but she probably worked very hard. yeah, she probably did.
RUSH: Oh, time-out.
CALLER: (giggles)
RUSH: This is a teachable moment for me. i doubt it. Are you telling me that there are women who do not appreciate...? being dismissed as anything other than an object of a man's lust? yes! that shouldn't be surprising! See, I thought we were past this. who could possibly get past that? When I was in my early twenties, Deborah, in the 1970s in Pittsburgh --
CALLER: Mmm-hmm?
RUSH: -- that was the birth of the modern era of feminism; and I'm telling you; if you complimented a woman on her appearance, it was a negative; because they were trained as, "Oh, is that all you see? Well, what about my brain?" It was frustrating to me. don't fucking bring it up if you know you will be offending someone. it's called common courtesy. get some. it's free. You couldn't open a car door! I'm not making this up. It was a very formative experience to me. apparently not formative enough Women do not want to be told how good they look because they thought they were being objectified or seen in a lesser stature yeah., but men cannot help this. men can't help noticing whether or not women are attractive to them. they can hold their tongues. asshat. God created us this way. It's what ends up in there being babies. misogyny leads to babies?
CALLER: Yeah, but, you know, talking about it on the radio doesn't make babies. that's actually a pretty good response.
RUSH: You never know. i don't care how superpowered your sperm are, rush, you can't talk people pregnant.
CALLER: (giggles) I don't think women appreciate that. no, we don't
RUSH: The fertility rate of this program has been quoted as being fairly high. please tell me he's kidding.
CALLER: (giggles) Well, I think you need to get rid of terms like "infobabe." yeah, that, too. you go, deborah! I mean, I know you might like being called an "infohunk," but...
RUSH: I invented the term!
CALLER: (giggles)
RUSH: It's creative and it's artistic, and it is a signature term. it's offensive and misogynistic and if you were genuinely interested in changing, you'd stop it right now.
CALLER: Well, I think it might be a big turnoff for a lot of women. You know, when I hear that term, I -- oh, Deborah, just give up now. he's not honestly interested in your opinion.
RUSH: I would say they need to lighten up, for crying out loud! if i offend you, it's you're fault! Why do I have to change who I am? you're the one who asked for advice on how to change, asshat! Why can't they just lighten up? *sigh* Infobabe! Why can't they laugh? being dismissed as nothing more than an object of your lust isn't funny, that's why. What is the problem with being light and lovable and just smiling now and then? if you actually were light and lovable that wouldn't be a problem. Why must everything be said through gritted teeth and anger? i don't know rush, that's your schtick.
CALLER: It doesn't have to be that way, but you don't have to label it as an "infobabe." poor deborah, she still assumes he's interested in an honest exchange of ideas.
RUSH: (laughs) I'm not going to change that. That is a signature. I mean, that's been picked up. by other misogynists, no doubt. Even if I stop using it, everybody else out there is using it. well, you should totally objectify women because other people do. I guess next I should stop using the term "anchorette." *headdesk*
well, i hope you got the point, guys, cause there's only so much of that i can take.
Rush Limbaugh can't figure out why women hate him.
Really.
I'm serious.
He just noticed this. He can't figure out why.
Yes the same Rush Limbaugh who said that "Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society."
and
"We're not sexists, we're chauvinists -- we're male chauvinist pigs, and we're happy to be because we think that's what men were destined to be. We think that's what women want."
and
"She comes to me when she wants to be fed. And after I feed her -- guess what -- she's off to wherever she wants to be in the house, until the next time she gets hungry. She's smart enough to know she can't feed herself. She's actually a very smart cat. She gets loved. She gets adoration. She gets petted. She gets fed. And she doesn't have to do anything for it, which is why I say this cat's taught me more about women, than anything my whole life." --on his cat
In fact, he has convened a "summit" to try and figure out why women hate him.
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to do the Female Summit today, by the way. We will do the Female Summit in the third hour of the program today, and the reason we're going to do the Female Summit is Public Policy Polling in North Carolina published a national poll on your beloved host, El Rushbo. They found I've got 46% approval, 43% disapproval, but I got a huge gender gap. I wonder why? My gender gap between men and women is 31%. Thirty-one percent is the differential between male approval and female approval. The fact that any women at all approve of Rush is incredibly disturbing. So yesterday I said, "What can I do about this? Exercise your Second Amendment rights? Stop exercising your First Amendment rights?What could be done? What is the explanation for this? you're a misogynistic asshat. for starters."
'Cause I'm just a harmless i wish little compared to what? fuzzball. I'm the sweetest, the nicest, most generous, compassionate i don't think he knows what any of those words mean, confident, cocky i'll grant you "confident" and "cocky", but why do you think women like cocky?, I-know-what-I-want-and-I-know-what's-right-and-I'm-going-to-say-what-I-think again, why do think this would be an attractive trait to any sane person? kind of guy you could run into, and I'm saying to myself, "What could be the explanation for the gender gap? probably something unfortunate about men. I should try to understand it myself." Why not do a Female Summit, with breakout groups and the whole thing, like Obama does, on Social Security and electricity and procurement. So we're going to do a Female Summit. It may take more than one day, depending on the answers we get. i'm guessing any answer you get that doesn't affirm your own opinion of yourself won't be heard anyway, so this should take about 3 minutes. I've got a lot so far in e-mail, by the way. But what will happen, we're going to take calls only from women in the last hour of the program today. Very rarely do I define requirements for callers. isn't there some commandment about lying? But today, I am going to do so. For the purposes of the Female Summit, it would make no sense for women to call and say how much they love me. clearly, they don't.
We already know that there are many who do, and we know why. We need to hear from women who don't particularly love me, who don't particularly like me, or from women who do like me who know women who hate me me!me!me! , who can tell me why. you judge women on looks alone. you think a female cat and a human woman are the same thing. you think chauvanism is what women want. But more than that, we need calls from women who will have suggestions for what they think I should do to close the gender gap SHUT.THE.FUCK.UP.-- and, I must add, some of you may think I should not worry about it. You can say that, too. The only thing off-limits is fawning love, adulation, devotion. since when? We'll save that for Open Line Friday. But today, the Female Summit must offer constructive criticism and hopefully some solutions a rope, a goat and a train., then I'll take it. You know, on a call-by-call, case-by-case basis. So what will happen right before the final hour, Snerdley will screen all the calls -- or he'll broom 'em. if they aren't displaying the proper catly attitude.
At the break at the top of the hour for the third hour begins is when we will start taking calls only from women. Now, we've done this before. We are highly trained broadcast specialists BWAHAHAHAHAHA, so we know it's going to happen. A bunch of men going to call trying to disguise their voices. what?! We'll catch you. A bunch of men are going to put their girlfriends or wives on the phone to fool us so that when it's their turn to get on the air the guy will actually be there. apparently, i don't listen to the Rush Limbaugh often enough. (well, ever.) I want to warn you: anybody caught trying to perpetrate a trick on this program and your host will be met with in a most direct, and what you might consider unkind, way. you'll hang up the phone? The first moment that I sniff deceit, you're gone. I will break my rule of never hanging up on anyone yeah, right. that's why you screen calls. asshat and do it today. We're serious about the Female Summit. you don't understand the meaning of "serious", either?
It's a crisis point in our country today so we'd better figure out why the girlies don't love the rush!, and we haven't got time to fool around with jokers, practical jokers. he is absolutely convinced of this bizarre men-pretending-to-be-women scenario, isn't he? I'm the king of those. that would explain a lot. I spot them before anybody knows they're coming. it's Rush's superpower! So get ready. Gear up for the final hour today being the first ever Rush Limbaugh Female Summit on the EIB Network. Now, this is not nitpicking, because Obama thinks that there are 57 states. what the hell does that have to do with anything? (if you include US territories and protectorates, you get 57) He said that during the campaign. But I need to ask you people a question: Who invented the automobile? what does that have to do with women hating Rush? WTF? Oh! One thing about the Female Summit: sorry, no transsexuals. you're getting warmer, Rush. We're not going to have anybody who's had an addadictomy we call those sex reassignment surgeries, or gender reassignment surgeries. and anyone who had an "addadictomy" would be a MAN, and therefore ineligible for the Female Summit. Asshat., and we're not going to have anybody who's had a chopadickoffamy. you're so disgusting. We're going to have women from birth.
Nothing against transgenders, nothing against transsexuals oh, puhlease. you hate transexuals like you hate latinos, blacks and women, but that doesn't apply because they weren't polled. Only women were polled in this. the pollsters checked to make sure they were registered as women at birth? really? So if you had an addadictomy, you can't call here and say you used to be a woman. It ain't gonna work. And if you had a chopadickoffamy and you used to be a guy, you cannot call here and say you're now a woman. You can try it, but it isn't gonna work. how many transexuals does Rush think listen to his show? i'd be surprised if it were one. and he or she is probably doing it for research. Now, we ask that all of you be honest. We ask that all of you be sincere in our effort here to close the El Rushbo gender gap based on the polling from Public Policy Polling. I just got a note: "Can employees participate in the All Female Summit?" Can employees participate? Well, I assume so, but the employees must go through the regular channels. There will be no preferential treatment shown to callers. except taking nontransexual female callers only.
[more on how you just can't fool Rush Limbaugh]
We're looking for stories from women who actually have big problems with me and are able to explain to me what they are so I can react to it. by insulting them, no doubt We're trying to get to the bottom of something here. We want this to work, we want this to have an effective climax pffft! so that there is something at the end of the hour from which I can learn and maybe improve and get better. We won't know 'til we start taking phone calls. But if you try to fake us out, if you try to -- by the way, there's nothing wrong with transgenders and transsexuals, but no transgenders and no transsexuals. If you've had an addadictomy, please don't call. If you've had a chopadickoffamy, please don't call. again! We'll let you in on another occasion. This is for women who have been born women and stay that way. please, please explain this to me? did Rush recently find himself fucking a hooker with a dick or something?
this caller is a fan who attempts level some valid criticism at rush, with no success:
CALLER: First I want to congratulate you on your success in radio and thanks for letting me be a part of your summit. *gag* I agree with your politics, but I don't routinely listen to your show because of certain things you say. The first time I listened to your show you were criticizing a liberal woman's blog, and I was fine with your criticism, and at the end of your criticism said something to the effect of, "Well, at the end of the day she's a babe so it doesn't really matter anyways," and you were referring to the columnist. After you said she was "a babe," you know, in my mind and maybe in the mind of many other women listening, you totally diminished what you had said previously about her column. yes, exactly. you reduced her to her looks, stating outright that it doesn't matter what she does, as long as she's pretty. women don't like that, Rush. And, you know, in this time I think, you know, conservatives, we really need to pull together. And you, Rush, as a great leader and speaker for conservatism, you don't need to dilute your message with who's hot and who's not. You know, leave that to someone else who has nothing better to say. Rush doesn't have anything better to say, but good advice.
RUSH: Well, but what if the fact that being a babe is the most notable thing about a particular liberal blogger? it's not. but even if it were, then don't say anything at all. I mean, I'm looking for something nice to say after having ripped a liberal blogger for being wrong, because she's a liberal, she can't possibly be right, and so I'm looking for something positive. yeah, i'm sure that complete dismissal of her as anything other than an object of lust was motivated purely by your natural instinct to fairness, rush. If she's a babe, she's a babe. What is...? You know men can't help but notice these things. I guess you're saying, "Yeah, go ahead and notice, but don't mention it." yeah. it's fine to notice what someone looks like, you don't have to make it the only issue. asshat.
CALLER: Yeah. I mean, you know, she might not take that as a compliment. i sure wouldn't take being dismissed that way as a compliment. I'm not saying I agree with liberals, but she probably worked very hard. yeah, she probably did.
RUSH: Oh, time-out.
CALLER: (giggles)
RUSH: This is a teachable moment for me. i doubt it. Are you telling me that there are women who do not appreciate...? being dismissed as anything other than an object of a man's lust? yes! that shouldn't be surprising! See, I thought we were past this. who could possibly get past that? When I was in my early twenties, Deborah, in the 1970s in Pittsburgh --
CALLER: Mmm-hmm?
RUSH: -- that was the birth of the modern era of feminism; and I'm telling you; if you complimented a woman on her appearance, it was a negative; because they were trained as, "Oh, is that all you see? Well, what about my brain?" It was frustrating to me. don't fucking bring it up if you know you will be offending someone. it's called common courtesy. get some. it's free. You couldn't open a car door! I'm not making this up. It was a very formative experience to me. apparently not formative enough Women do not want to be told how good they look because they thought they were being objectified or seen in a lesser stature yeah., but men cannot help this. men can't help noticing whether or not women are attractive to them. they can hold their tongues. asshat. God created us this way. It's what ends up in there being babies. misogyny leads to babies?
CALLER: Yeah, but, you know, talking about it on the radio doesn't make babies. that's actually a pretty good response.
RUSH: You never know. i don't care how superpowered your sperm are, rush, you can't talk people pregnant.
CALLER: (giggles) I don't think women appreciate that. no, we don't
RUSH: The fertility rate of this program has been quoted as being fairly high. please tell me he's kidding.
CALLER: (giggles) Well, I think you need to get rid of terms like "infobabe." yeah, that, too. you go, deborah! I mean, I know you might like being called an "infohunk," but...
RUSH: I invented the term!
CALLER: (giggles)
RUSH: It's creative and it's artistic, and it is a signature term. it's offensive and misogynistic and if you were genuinely interested in changing, you'd stop it right now.
CALLER: Well, I think it might be a big turnoff for a lot of women. You know, when I hear that term, I -- oh, Deborah, just give up now. he's not honestly interested in your opinion.
RUSH: I would say they need to lighten up, for crying out loud! if i offend you, it's you're fault! Why do I have to change who I am? you're the one who asked for advice on how to change, asshat! Why can't they just lighten up? *sigh* Infobabe! Why can't they laugh? being dismissed as nothing more than an object of your lust isn't funny, that's why. What is the problem with being light and lovable and just smiling now and then? if you actually were light and lovable that wouldn't be a problem. Why must everything be said through gritted teeth and anger? i don't know rush, that's your schtick.
CALLER: It doesn't have to be that way, but you don't have to label it as an "infobabe." poor deborah, she still assumes he's interested in an honest exchange of ideas.
RUSH: (laughs) I'm not going to change that. That is a signature. I mean, that's been picked up. by other misogynists, no doubt. Even if I stop using it, everybody else out there is using it. well, you should totally objectify women because other people do. I guess next I should stop using the term "anchorette." *headdesk*
well, i hope you got the point, guys, cause there's only so much of that i can take.
Objecting for the Sake of Objecting
facepalm, prop 8, stimulus, obama, protest, stupid
picture from sheburns12*
Pearlyscum has some advice for those protesting Democrats/Obama/stimulus. Some of it's not bad, but the this bit of advice is extremely telling:
3. Speakers not prepared for the media - the organizer was asked to name some specific objectionable items in the stimulus. She couldn’t do it. I doubt many of us could.
If you are an organizer, or the “face” of the event - take an hour to prepare. You don’t need to know everything about the stimulus. Just find 2 or 3 things - hard facts - you can point to and credibly say - these are wrong, wasteful spending items. Or, these items grow government, not the economy. It is critical.
If you can't think of one, just one, item in the stimulus you are opposed to, then how do you even know you are opposed to it? These people used valuable hours of their lives, time that could have been spent doing, well, just about anything, to protest a stimulus and they don't even know what it is they are opposed to?
Captain Picard displays my reaction to this in a way words cannot.
picture from sheburns12*
Pearlyscum has some advice for those protesting Democrats/Obama/stimulus. Some of it's not bad, but the this bit of advice is extremely telling:
3. Speakers not prepared for the media - the organizer was asked to name some specific objectionable items in the stimulus. She couldn’t do it. I doubt many of us could.
If you are an organizer, or the “face” of the event - take an hour to prepare. You don’t need to know everything about the stimulus. Just find 2 or 3 things - hard facts - you can point to and credibly say - these are wrong, wasteful spending items. Or, these items grow government, not the economy. It is critical.
If you can't think of one, just one, item in the stimulus you are opposed to, then how do you even know you are opposed to it? These people used valuable hours of their lives, time that could have been spent doing, well, just about anything, to protest a stimulus and they don't even know what it is they are opposed to?
Captain Picard displays my reaction to this in a way words cannot.
*unfortunately, using the source code for blogs from sheburns12's page results in a picture too big to be seen in its entirety on my blog. hence the awkward attribution.
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Mormon Traditional Marriage Supporter Changes Her Mind
prop 8, gay, marriage, homosexual, homophobia, tradition, traditional, lds, mormon,
Sometimes, people amaze me. Truly amaze me.
Debi Hartman, a former leader of the Mormon opposition to same-sex marriage, has changed her mind.
Wow.
Keep in mind, the LDS has no patience for those who go against the grain. She is doubtless being shunned as you read. For her to have the courage to not only change her mind, but go public with it, is really, well, amazing.
You can read the article in its entirety through the link above, and you should, but I wanted to highlight exactly what it is that changed Ms. Hartman's mind.
Asked if she believes any single religion has the right to impose its beliefs unto the constitution of a secular government, Hartmann said, "I thought that having civil unions and having marriage was the perfect answer to that question, as long as all rights are provided. I absolutely believed that up until last year when I read the California Supreme Court's ruling."
The court ruling was the turning point for Hartmann on marriage equality.
"It crushed my beliefs," explained Hartmann. "It taught me that words can be invidious. For example, if you and I had to walk into a doctor's office and they ask us to fill out a form and you have to check 'civil union' and I check 'marriage,' that's the invidious discrimination. The same rights have to be called by the same name. That's the answer to removing the religion from our laws."
She also no longer believes that same sex marriage will affect churches in any negative way. She came to this belief through a careful review of reality. Hartmann said she no longer believes the rhetoric that marriage equality will affect religious freedom. "I think Massachusetts has taught us that it doesn't," she said. "I may be naive on this, but I don't think that we've seen churches close in Massachusetts."
When asked to review the reciprocal beneficiaries law she had helped write, Ms. Hartman realized the truth of the matter. What happened was I was shocked," Hartmann said. "Now a lot had happened to me in those 10 years [since Hartmann led the LDS fight against same-sex marriage]. I had become educated and enlightened. And when I began to review the reciprocal beneficiaries law, I wasn't approaching it from an emotional standpoint or trying to defend something. I was simply approaching it. I wasn't looking to find something, I was just looking. What Hawaii's Future Today was looking for in the inclusion of benefits in the reciprocal beneficiaries law wasn't there. When I went back and looked for the outline of the bill ... what happened was in conference committee it had been gutted, rights had been stripped out of it. And then I compared it to the marriage law. That law automatically enjoins children, and spouse. Reciprocal benefits did not. That's when I realized I had hurt families."
. . .
"I did not grasp that I was supporting a bill that was not protecting and enjoining all rights and protections that all families with children should have a right to have. I was supporting a law that literally oppressed and repressed and I didn't get that," said Hartmann.
Sometimes, people amaze me. Truly amaze me.
Debi Hartman, a former leader of the Mormon opposition to same-sex marriage, has changed her mind.
Wow.
Keep in mind, the LDS has no patience for those who go against the grain. She is doubtless being shunned as you read. For her to have the courage to not only change her mind, but go public with it, is really, well, amazing.
You can read the article in its entirety through the link above, and you should, but I wanted to highlight exactly what it is that changed Ms. Hartman's mind.
Asked if she believes any single religion has the right to impose its beliefs unto the constitution of a secular government, Hartmann said, "I thought that having civil unions and having marriage was the perfect answer to that question, as long as all rights are provided. I absolutely believed that up until last year when I read the California Supreme Court's ruling."
The court ruling was the turning point for Hartmann on marriage equality.
"It crushed my beliefs," explained Hartmann. "It taught me that words can be invidious. For example, if you and I had to walk into a doctor's office and they ask us to fill out a form and you have to check 'civil union' and I check 'marriage,' that's the invidious discrimination. The same rights have to be called by the same name. That's the answer to removing the religion from our laws."
She also no longer believes that same sex marriage will affect churches in any negative way. She came to this belief through a careful review of reality. Hartmann said she no longer believes the rhetoric that marriage equality will affect religious freedom. "I think Massachusetts has taught us that it doesn't," she said. "I may be naive on this, but I don't think that we've seen churches close in Massachusetts."
When asked to review the reciprocal beneficiaries law she had helped write, Ms. Hartman realized the truth of the matter. What happened was I was shocked," Hartmann said. "Now a lot had happened to me in those 10 years [since Hartmann led the LDS fight against same-sex marriage]. I had become educated and enlightened. And when I began to review the reciprocal beneficiaries law, I wasn't approaching it from an emotional standpoint or trying to defend something. I was simply approaching it. I wasn't looking to find something, I was just looking. What Hawaii's Future Today was looking for in the inclusion of benefits in the reciprocal beneficiaries law wasn't there. When I went back and looked for the outline of the bill ... what happened was in conference committee it had been gutted, rights had been stripped out of it. And then I compared it to the marriage law. That law automatically enjoins children, and spouse. Reciprocal benefits did not. That's when I realized I had hurt families."
. . .
"I did not grasp that I was supporting a bill that was not protecting and enjoining all rights and protections that all families with children should have a right to have. I was supporting a law that literally oppressed and repressed and I didn't get that," said Hartmann.
Ray Comfort Attempts a Parse
atheism, atheist, ray, comfort, christian, christianity, religion, religious, jesus, god, stupid, asshat,
Ray Comfort tends to get himself into trouble when attempting to parse, well, anything. I can't tell if it's because Mr. Comfort lacks the minimum intelligence necessary to successfully parse, or if it's because he is aware that he is lying, is aware that others are aware he is lying and as a result, tries too hard to hide the lie. (I'm usually pretty good at understanding the motivation/psychology of others, but Mr. Comfort is the Schroedinger's Cat of psychology for me. I just can't figure him out.)
Watch in amazement as Mr. Comfort attempts to parse the difference between "lack of belief" and "not believing".
"I was just reading some reviews of your book over on Amazon. LOL. I had a quick look at the first page of the book and I just had to pass on my observation. The first lie I can see is in the third sentence on page 1: ‘An ‘atheist’ believes that there is no God...’ While that statement correctly describes me -- I believe that there is no God -- the vast majority of atheists do not hold this view. i am one of those atheists. i don't actively believe there is no god. i have simply found no evidence that there is a god. this is different from actively believing there is no god. duh. They merely lack belief in gods. Quite different from what you are saying. I'm calling you out on the lie as I know we've explained the difference to you many times now. only at least 100 times. Either Mr. Comfort doesn't bother to read the comments he moderates (mine pretty much always get moderated), or he is so arrogant he thinks that he knows better than me what I believe. It isn't just a simple mistake on your part. It's a lie Ray.” alphgeek alphgeek is one of the many atheists who regularly comment on Mr. Comfort's posts. Like StephenJ, it is well worth reading Mr. Comfort's drivel to get to alphgeek's replies.
It’s true. Most contemporary atheists carefully say that they “lack belief in gods.” "contemporary"? "carefully"? well, yes, Mr. Comfort, I am careful in what I say. The whole purpose of language is to communicate. If you don't choose your words carefully, you typically end up communicating something you didn't intend to, thus obviating the entire purpose of communication. (I recommend that all men who read this think about it for a while. It may well solve some problems for you.) I say “carefully” because they don’t want to be seen as having any “faith” at all, probably because of its overtones. no, Mr. Comfort, you don't know how I feel better than I do.
So let’s look closely at what they are saying. You use the word "carefully" one more time . . . hello, thesaurus! If I tell you “I lack belief that my Ford truck has a maker,” I am saying that I think nothing made it. and we're back to the truck argument. it's silly, it's a red herring, and it has no connection to the previous paragraph. Just to review, I have no idea how the universe got started. I don't have the necessary understanding of physics to truly grasp the Big Bang Theory, for one. I just don't know. That does not mean, however, that "god did it" is the answer. if everyone just automatically went with "god did it" as an explanation for everything, there would be no science. and no computers/internet for Mr. Comfort to make his ridiculous red herring arguments on. It just happened. That is scientifically impossible. Nothing is nothing. It cannot “make” anything. and how could god be something before there was anything to be something in again? If it can make something, then it’s not nothing because it has the power to make something. enough with the semantics, Mr. Comfort. So the contemporary atheist with his semantics paints himself into an intellectual dilemma. no, I don't. I don't know where everything came from. I don't claim to. I have seen no evidence of any god, therefore I lack belief in god. I also lack belief in tiny pink unicorns. and the truck still exists.
He has the choice of thinking nothing made everything, that something made everything (perhaps God) and is no longer an atheist, or he joins the “Don’t Understand How” club--the DUH. nice, Mr. Comfort. really nice. not exactly an argument or logic, but really juvenile. Penn Jillette is a well-known atheist. Look at his honesty when it comes to the issue of believing: “I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy . . . But, this ‘This I Believe’ thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, ‘This I believe: I believe there is no God.’” So I'm only being honest if I feel exactly as Mr. Jillette does? (I love Penn Jillette, btw. I just don't feel the same way he does.) Let's apply this to other areas of my life. Am I being dishonest if I say that I prefer men to women sexually? What if my favorite movie or song is different from Mr. Jillette's? Would this qualify as dishonesty on my part? See how quickly this gets out of hand?
Ray Comfort tends to get himself into trouble when attempting to parse, well, anything. I can't tell if it's because Mr. Comfort lacks the minimum intelligence necessary to successfully parse, or if it's because he is aware that he is lying, is aware that others are aware he is lying and as a result, tries too hard to hide the lie. (I'm usually pretty good at understanding the motivation/psychology of others, but Mr. Comfort is the Schroedinger's Cat of psychology for me. I just can't figure him out.)
Watch in amazement as Mr. Comfort attempts to parse the difference between "lack of belief" and "not believing".
"I was just reading some reviews of your book over on Amazon. LOL. I had a quick look at the first page of the book and I just had to pass on my observation. The first lie I can see is in the third sentence on page 1: ‘An ‘atheist’ believes that there is no God...’ While that statement correctly describes me -- I believe that there is no God -- the vast majority of atheists do not hold this view. i am one of those atheists. i don't actively believe there is no god. i have simply found no evidence that there is a god. this is different from actively believing there is no god. duh. They merely lack belief in gods. Quite different from what you are saying. I'm calling you out on the lie as I know we've explained the difference to you many times now. only at least 100 times. Either Mr. Comfort doesn't bother to read the comments he moderates (mine pretty much always get moderated), or he is so arrogant he thinks that he knows better than me what I believe. It isn't just a simple mistake on your part. It's a lie Ray.” alphgeek alphgeek is one of the many atheists who regularly comment on Mr. Comfort's posts. Like StephenJ, it is well worth reading Mr. Comfort's drivel to get to alphgeek's replies.
It’s true. Most contemporary atheists carefully say that they “lack belief in gods.” "contemporary"? "carefully"? well, yes, Mr. Comfort, I am careful in what I say. The whole purpose of language is to communicate. If you don't choose your words carefully, you typically end up communicating something you didn't intend to, thus obviating the entire purpose of communication. (I recommend that all men who read this think about it for a while. It may well solve some problems for you.) I say “carefully” because they don’t want to be seen as having any “faith” at all, probably because of its overtones. no, Mr. Comfort, you don't know how I feel better than I do.
So let’s look closely at what they are saying. You use the word "carefully" one more time . . . hello, thesaurus! If I tell you “I lack belief that my Ford truck has a maker,” I am saying that I think nothing made it. and we're back to the truck argument. it's silly, it's a red herring, and it has no connection to the previous paragraph. Just to review, I have no idea how the universe got started. I don't have the necessary understanding of physics to truly grasp the Big Bang Theory, for one. I just don't know. That does not mean, however, that "god did it" is the answer. if everyone just automatically went with "god did it" as an explanation for everything, there would be no science. and no computers/internet for Mr. Comfort to make his ridiculous red herring arguments on. It just happened. That is scientifically impossible. Nothing is nothing. It cannot “make” anything. and how could god be something before there was anything to be something in again? If it can make something, then it’s not nothing because it has the power to make something. enough with the semantics, Mr. Comfort. So the contemporary atheist with his semantics paints himself into an intellectual dilemma. no, I don't. I don't know where everything came from. I don't claim to. I have seen no evidence of any god, therefore I lack belief in god. I also lack belief in tiny pink unicorns. and the truck still exists.
He has the choice of thinking nothing made everything, that something made everything (perhaps God) and is no longer an atheist, or he joins the “Don’t Understand How” club--the DUH. nice, Mr. Comfort. really nice. not exactly an argument or logic, but really juvenile. Penn Jillette is a well-known atheist. Look at his honesty when it comes to the issue of believing: “I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy . . . But, this ‘This I Believe’ thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, ‘This I believe: I believe there is no God.’” So I'm only being honest if I feel exactly as Mr. Jillette does? (I love Penn Jillette, btw. I just don't feel the same way he does.) Let's apply this to other areas of my life. Am I being dishonest if I say that I prefer men to women sexually? What if my favorite movie or song is different from Mr. Jillette's? Would this qualify as dishonesty on my part? See how quickly this gets out of hand?
Wednesday, February 25, 2009
I'm So Glad I Had My Abortion
abortion, prolife, prochoice, proof, stupid,
No matter how you feel about abortion, this is a rather silly argument, and doesn't even approach logic:
(from Follow Up Thoughts on Jane Roe Commercial by Disciple Nations Alliance)
Something a friend of mine has told me many times now continues to resonate in my mind . . . she says, “I’ve never heard of a woman who says, ‘I’m so glad I had my abortion.’”
Can you imagine the reaction if a woman did say this? (At least in the US, I don't know how other countries are about the issue.) At the very least, she would lose friends. At least one person in her family would probably stop talking to her. She'd probably lose her job and get a few death threats. Assuming someone didn't just go ahead and kill her.
Considering how many abortions are done every year, and the fact that I am 33, and most of the women I know are in their childbearing years, I have to know someone who has had an abortion. At least one person. Yet, I've never heard anyone I've ever known admit to having an abortion*. It simply is not something that is safe to talk about in the US.
This does not mean that there isn't anyone who isn't happy, or at least relieved, to have had an abortion. It also doesn't mean that every single woman who did have one is currently consumed by grief and guilt.
Want proof?
Well, here you go:
Un-Expecting
Roe vs. Wade vs. My Boyfriend
*I have heard some suspicious miscarriage discussions, but it's entirely possible that as many women who are horrified to be pregnant miscarry as women who were trying to get pregnant.
No matter how you feel about abortion, this is a rather silly argument, and doesn't even approach logic:
(from Follow Up Thoughts on Jane Roe Commercial by Disciple Nations Alliance)
Something a friend of mine has told me many times now continues to resonate in my mind . . . she says, “I’ve never heard of a woman who says, ‘I’m so glad I had my abortion.’”
Can you imagine the reaction if a woman did say this? (At least in the US, I don't know how other countries are about the issue.) At the very least, she would lose friends. At least one person in her family would probably stop talking to her. She'd probably lose her job and get a few death threats. Assuming someone didn't just go ahead and kill her.
Considering how many abortions are done every year, and the fact that I am 33, and most of the women I know are in their childbearing years, I have to know someone who has had an abortion. At least one person. Yet, I've never heard anyone I've ever known admit to having an abortion*. It simply is not something that is safe to talk about in the US.
This does not mean that there isn't anyone who isn't happy, or at least relieved, to have had an abortion. It also doesn't mean that every single woman who did have one is currently consumed by grief and guilt.
Want proof?
Well, here you go:
Un-Expecting
Roe vs. Wade vs. My Boyfriend
*I have heard some suspicious miscarriage discussions, but it's entirely possible that as many women who are horrified to be pregnant miscarry as women who were trying to get pregnant.
Fundy Reaction to Atheist Student Group
atheism, atheist, christian, christianity, campaign, religion, rapture, crazy,
The most common fundy explanation of atheists is that deep down we do believe in god, but our pride/love of sin/basic ignorance keeps us from worshipping him properly. This is incredibly silly, and unbelievably arrogant. Would any of these people even consider telling me what I think or feel about anything else? If I said that I love my husband, would they say, "No, you don't." If I said that I am terrified of spiders, would they say, "No, you just pretend to be arachnophobic."
I rather think not.
What if I said that christians don't really believe in god, they just pretend to, because it's popular? They're just going with the flow, following the path of least resistance, trying not to make waves. (Don't worry, I'm all out of cliches for now.) I would be lambasted, and rightly so. I cannot know another person's mind. I can guess from their words or actions, but in the end, I have to take their word for it.
On to what prompted my rant.
From the Rapture Ready message boards, we have First Were The Buses. Now Atheists Get a Student Society. (posted by MovinUp)
My immediate reaction to this, without even reading the article is "Well, yeah, we're citizens, too. If all the religious organizations can have student societies on college campuses, why can't atheists? (There really is no reason why not other than prejudice.)"
Every religion on campus has its student society, from the Christian Union to the Jedi Knights. Now the non-religionists atheists? it's certainly easier to type than non-religionists. will have theirs comma too. The National Federation of Atheist, Humanist and Secular Student Societies launches today to mobilise non-believers again, atheists. The "anti-God squad", as it is happy to be called, says it will fight for the voices of what it believes to be the majority of students to be heard on campus and further afield. probably not the majority, but hey, way to think positive. It is planning campaigns and events across the country to protest against religious privilege and promote the understanding of science. It has the support of some of the country's leading critics of religion: the scientist Richard Dawkins, the philosopher AC Grayling, and the Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee.The launch comes four months after a campaign for 30 London buses to parade the slogan: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."The campaign, first mooted on the Guardian's Comment is Free site by comedy writer Ariane Sherine, began in response to evangelical Christian adverts on buses.entire article:http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...tudent-society
I'm not sure how an atheist snuck onto the Rapture Ready message boards, but Omachi replies with: It's about time. Although, if it's anything like the Christian Union at my university, they won't me all militant and "God doesn't exist, you're a fool to believe in him". Hopefully anyway. I can't stand militant atheists, and I'm a atheist myself.
(Omachi's signature) Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. love the sig, and I agree with Omachi. I'm not all about defaithing people, I just want them to leave me alone.
BarbT tries for a pithy reply:
"It's about time." Nope, it's about eternity. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. probably something about hell.
happy2serve: Hi Omachi
Sorry I have to quote you:"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." just try disbelieving in gravity. you will indeed still fall.
God, even though some stop believing in Him, doesn't go away, even though our 'reality, ie. the physical world' will eventually go away. Atheists will find out during judgment day this is the truth. God bless. YOU WILL BURN IN HELL! have a nice day! we call this an appeal to consequences, and it's not a valid argument. besides, threatening someone with something they don't believe in is pointless. you may as well threaten to send a herd of tiny pink unicorns to prick me to death with their tiny, sharp horns.
And mods...sorry if this is tracking off course...I do apologize mod apologies seem to be all the rage on this board.
cocopea9052 (which really makes me wonder if "cocopea" without the numbers was taken) joins the appeal to consequences: Hum, well you know I suppose they can mobilize now if they so choose. But one day all "unbelievers" random sarcastiquotes! will mobilize, and it won't be on a bus, or on a school campus, it won't be at a Convention or Society meeting. where will it be, cocopea? It won't be to go cross-country and spread the word of "non-belief". But yes, they will all be mobilized, they will all stand together....and their worries over "if there is a God", will be put to a final rest, but uh.....I don't think they will be enjoying life...,.... great, she never tells me. apparently, all the atheists will move to iowa at some point, or something like that. if you're going to make an appeal to consequences, you ought to at least tell me what the consequences are.
bornagain123 gives us the standard fundy talking point re: atheism: Is it just me, or does anyone else feel sorry for these people? ah, the condescension. you can smell it from here. Really-it's NOT that they DON'T believe G-d exists, but it's that they CAN'T. and here we go. could you stop telling me what i think, please? i know exactly how i think, and i don't believe god exists. don't. do not. IOW-they're doing nothing more than Sticking Their Heads In The Sand! random capitalization to no apparent purpose. They may look happy and smiley on the surface, but deep down inside, you can bet that they are worrying their tails off! oh, noes! I don't have a tail- I musta done worried it right off!
happy2serve is also happy to play along: Yes, I do very much feel sorry for them. so sorry, that i revel in their eventual eternal punishment. Unfortunately, trying to explain the truth to the majority of them is difficult. trying to peddle your fairy tales to someone who doesn't want to hear them is difficult. and obnoxious. I wish they would come to Christ so they could be at peace. i am at peace. much more at peace than when i was trying, so very hard, to believe in what i didn't believe in. (i am no good at the cognitive dissonance.)
cocopea9052 joins the false pity parade: Actually, I feel sorry for them too, but woe to the adults & parents who are leading them astray, God is going to pour out his wrath on them for sure. and everyone else, from what I understand. I mean, I know college students are mostly over 18, but they are still young adults. young enough to vote and fight, not quite old enough to pick a religion. brought to you by the people who cheerfully accept professions of faith from preschoolers. If they were not raised in a Christian home, then off they go to college and they think this stuff is normal and acceptable.. it's like Teh Gay they are in fact proud of promoting equality, we're not supposed to be proud of that? what exactly are we to be proud of then? fighting for some ungodly cause... oh, Teh Gay etc. ..they become submerged in the secular world with little to fall back on... i'm not sure "falling back" on something is a big help when you are "submerged" they have no Christian values to fall back on or roots to return to. These kids are grown from parents who never embraced Christ. not "born of" or "raised by", but "grown from". that's a little odd. I also like the No True Scotsman. (if they become atheists, they must never have been Real True Christianstm, because Real True Christianstm don't become atheists.) The blind leading the blind....It is a lost generation no doubt. ummmm . . . I'm fairly certain most of the Lost Generation is already dead.
So, there you have it. If you want to know what I think, go find a Real True Christiantm and ask them.
The most common fundy explanation of atheists is that deep down we do believe in god, but our pride/love of sin/basic ignorance keeps us from worshipping him properly. This is incredibly silly, and unbelievably arrogant. Would any of these people even consider telling me what I think or feel about anything else? If I said that I love my husband, would they say, "No, you don't." If I said that I am terrified of spiders, would they say, "No, you just pretend to be arachnophobic."
I rather think not.
What if I said that christians don't really believe in god, they just pretend to, because it's popular? They're just going with the flow, following the path of least resistance, trying not to make waves. (Don't worry, I'm all out of cliches for now.) I would be lambasted, and rightly so. I cannot know another person's mind. I can guess from their words or actions, but in the end, I have to take their word for it.
On to what prompted my rant.
From the Rapture Ready message boards, we have First Were The Buses. Now Atheists Get a Student Society. (posted by MovinUp)
My immediate reaction to this, without even reading the article is "Well, yeah, we're citizens, too. If all the religious organizations can have student societies on college campuses, why can't atheists? (There really is no reason why not other than prejudice.)"
Every religion on campus has its student society, from the Christian Union to the Jedi Knights. Now the non-religionists atheists? it's certainly easier to type than non-religionists. will have theirs comma too. The National Federation of Atheist, Humanist and Secular Student Societies launches today to mobilise non-believers again, atheists. The "anti-God squad", as it is happy to be called, says it will fight for the voices of what it believes to be the majority of students to be heard on campus and further afield. probably not the majority, but hey, way to think positive. It is planning campaigns and events across the country to protest against religious privilege and promote the understanding of science. It has the support of some of the country's leading critics of religion: the scientist Richard Dawkins, the philosopher AC Grayling, and the Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee.The launch comes four months after a campaign for 30 London buses to parade the slogan: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."The campaign, first mooted on the Guardian's Comment is Free site by comedy writer Ariane Sherine, began in response to evangelical Christian adverts on buses.entire article:http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...tudent-society
I'm not sure how an atheist snuck onto the Rapture Ready message boards, but Omachi replies with: It's about time. Although, if it's anything like the Christian Union at my university, they won't me all militant and "God doesn't exist, you're a fool to believe in him". Hopefully anyway. I can't stand militant atheists, and I'm a atheist myself.
(Omachi's signature) Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. love the sig, and I agree with Omachi. I'm not all about defaithing people, I just want them to leave me alone.
BarbT tries for a pithy reply:
"It's about time." Nope, it's about eternity. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. probably something about hell.
happy2serve: Hi Omachi
Sorry I have to quote you:"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." just try disbelieving in gravity. you will indeed still fall.
God, even though some stop believing in Him, doesn't go away, even though our 'reality, ie. the physical world' will eventually go away. Atheists will find out during judgment day this is the truth. God bless. YOU WILL BURN IN HELL! have a nice day! we call this an appeal to consequences, and it's not a valid argument. besides, threatening someone with something they don't believe in is pointless. you may as well threaten to send a herd of tiny pink unicorns to prick me to death with their tiny, sharp horns.
And mods...sorry if this is tracking off course...I do apologize mod apologies seem to be all the rage on this board.
cocopea9052 (which really makes me wonder if "cocopea" without the numbers was taken) joins the appeal to consequences: Hum, well you know I suppose they can mobilize now if they so choose. But one day all "unbelievers" random sarcastiquotes! will mobilize, and it won't be on a bus, or on a school campus, it won't be at a Convention or Society meeting. where will it be, cocopea? It won't be to go cross-country and spread the word of "non-belief". But yes, they will all be mobilized, they will all stand together....and their worries over "if there is a God", will be put to a final rest, but uh.....I don't think they will be enjoying life...,.... great, she never tells me. apparently, all the atheists will move to iowa at some point, or something like that. if you're going to make an appeal to consequences, you ought to at least tell me what the consequences are.
bornagain123 gives us the standard fundy talking point re: atheism: Is it just me, or does anyone else feel sorry for these people? ah, the condescension. you can smell it from here. Really-it's NOT that they DON'T believe G-d exists, but it's that they CAN'T. and here we go. could you stop telling me what i think, please? i know exactly how i think, and i don't believe god exists. don't. do not. IOW-they're doing nothing more than Sticking Their Heads In The Sand! random capitalization to no apparent purpose. They may look happy and smiley on the surface, but deep down inside, you can bet that they are worrying their tails off! oh, noes! I don't have a tail- I musta done worried it right off!
happy2serve is also happy to play along: Yes, I do very much feel sorry for them. so sorry, that i revel in their eventual eternal punishment. Unfortunately, trying to explain the truth to the majority of them is difficult. trying to peddle your fairy tales to someone who doesn't want to hear them is difficult. and obnoxious. I wish they would come to Christ so they could be at peace. i am at peace. much more at peace than when i was trying, so very hard, to believe in what i didn't believe in. (i am no good at the cognitive dissonance.)
cocopea9052 joins the false pity parade: Actually, I feel sorry for them too, but woe to the adults & parents who are leading them astray, God is going to pour out his wrath on them for sure. and everyone else, from what I understand. I mean, I know college students are mostly over 18, but they are still young adults. young enough to vote and fight, not quite old enough to pick a religion. brought to you by the people who cheerfully accept professions of faith from preschoolers. If they were not raised in a Christian home, then off they go to college and they think this stuff is normal and acceptable.. it's like Teh Gay they are in fact proud of promoting equality, we're not supposed to be proud of that? what exactly are we to be proud of then? fighting for some ungodly cause... oh, Teh Gay etc. ..they become submerged in the secular world with little to fall back on... i'm not sure "falling back" on something is a big help when you are "submerged" they have no Christian values to fall back on or roots to return to. These kids are grown from parents who never embraced Christ. not "born of" or "raised by", but "grown from". that's a little odd. I also like the No True Scotsman. (if they become atheists, they must never have been Real True Christianstm, because Real True Christianstm don't become atheists.) The blind leading the blind....It is a lost generation no doubt. ummmm . . . I'm fairly certain most of the Lost Generation is already dead.
So, there you have it. If you want to know what I think, go find a Real True Christiantm and ask them.
Back in Action
After spending a week and a half painting and laying laminate flooring, while working all day, I woke up yesterday too tired to get out of bed. I'm much better today, and will resume blogging when I catch up on my work.
Monday, February 23, 2009
Missing the Point Entirely Redux
walrus, opine, editorials, homophobia, homosexual, gay, marriage, traditional, neutering, license, stupid, asshat
Sometimes, people miss the point so entirely, it's hard to say if they're morons, or just living in some sort of tangentially related alternate reality and only visit on weekends. Personally, I'm voting for morons, but I'll let you decide.
The Playful Walrus, writing for the Opine Editorials, writes Part 2 of Dear Abby on Weddings that aren't Legally Sanctioned. (Apparently, someone was both shocked and dismayed to unwittingly witness a- gasp!- a wedding that wasn't legally sanctioned.) Many readers of Dear Abby wrote in response, and this is one of those responses:
In this day and age, especially with jobs so scarce, a lot of young couples are finding that by becoming legally married they disqualify themselves from things like prenatal care, health care for their children and government assistance programs. This is true. It is far easier to get Medicaid, WIC, food stamps, etc. if you are single. Government assistance programs really punish you for being married, apparently under the unsupported belief that married people are never poor.
I see. Make your commitment public and stand up for your faith – unless it costs you a government hand-out. Did it ever occur to these people that married people are supposed to take care of each other, instead of relying on the state to take care of them as individuals? First of all, nobody gets married to "stand up for their faith". Mostly it's about love, romance, societal expectations, and that really great party you get afterwards. Secondly, asshat, being married does not cure poverty. Plenty of married people are poor. I'm glad you're not, but that doesn't mean other people aren't. Apparently, Walrus is from the Bill Cunningham school of class warfare.
Keep in mind, the Opiners are violently opposed to birth control and abortion, as well as premarital sex. So, poor people shouldn't use birth control to prevent pregnancies they can't afford, they certainly shouldn't get abortions, they shouldn't be having sex if they aren't married, so what the fuck are they supposed to do? Oh, I get it. Walrus has his own solution to the Demographic Winter- make sure the poor, brown folk don't breed. Ever.
In order to survive, many couples now opt to have the ceremony without the paperwork.
And what happens to the assets if there is a split? What assets are a couple too poor to afford marriage likely to have, asshat? What about support for the spouse who agreed to spend more time taking care of the home instead of earning income? IF YOU'RE TOO POOR TO GET MARRIED, YOU'RE BOTH WORKING. FUCKING MORON.
What happens if the woman gets pregnant by someone she barely knows and her "husband" wisely insists on a DNA test before he supports the pregnancy or the child, thus leaving the child without a financial father? This is so offensive, I'm not sure where to begin. "Wisely insists"? "Barely knows"? Oh, I see, poor women are immoral sluts. They'll fuck anything that moves and then try to pass of the baby as someone else's. Someone, please help me out. Does anyone know a phrase crude and offensive enough to describe Walrus?
If they refuse to get legally married or are too poor to protect their access to my tax money it's their tax money, too, asshat, then I should know so that I do not do the redundant thing and buy a gift for them. i doubt anyone is inviting you to this particular ceremony you ignorant fucker.
Another idea gaining in popularity is that unless everyone in this country has equal rights for marriage, no one should be getting married. I can see that. I doubt my not getting married would help anything, but I can see that. I bet Walrus can't.
Again, everyone already has equal access. If these people REALLY meant what they were saying, they'd sponsor constitutional amendments letting any person get a marriage license with any other person, regardless of the marital status of either party, and regardless of how closely they are related. the old "homosexuality is exactly the same as pedophilia" argument. it's ridiculous, stupid and offensive, but haven't we come to expect that from Walrus by now?
Several couples I know have married without the paperwork because they regard the alternative the same as sitting at a segregated lunch counter, and they are unwilling to support segregation. Again, I can see that. Do these people have driver’s licenses? What about people who "can't" get one of those? what the fuck is walrus talking about? solidarity with illegal aliens? the civil rights being denied the blind? if you're going to make an analogy, Walrus, make sure it actually applies first, okay? there was no reason to make me stop and think about that mess.
Many people feel there is a blatant disregard for separation of church and state and that "legal" marriages are not at all legal, but an example of government recognizing those with faith while disregarding those who have a different point of view on what family is. I totally agree with this one, both as an atheist, and as a gay rights supporter. There are countries in Europe where all legally recognized marriages are performed as civil ceremonies in front of a civil servant. If you want a religious ceremony as well, that's done separately, and is not recognized one way or the other by the state. That is exactly how we should do it here. That way, gays are equal to everyone else in the legal sense, and churches remain free to do what they want.
Walrus has this take on it: The government can't avoid getting involved in what family is or is not, considering child custody, child support, child guardianship, and inheritance issues If all marriages were civil, this wouldn't be a problem. beyond that, not allowing gays to marry is causing problems in the courts with child custody and support and inheritance issues that allowing them to marry would instantly solve. so do you really want to solve those problems, Walrus, or just throw up irrelevant arguments to shore up your hatred of Teh Gayz?
My husband and I were married by a minister, but without a marriage license because his financial problems could have adversely affected me. "For richer or poorer - well, not really." You shouldn't marry a financial disaster – whether you are male or female. You shouldn't shack up with one, either. "shacking up", huh? i guess it depends on what her situation was and his situation was. if she had lots of money that she earned herself, and his financial situation was resulting in legal judgments right and left, why should she lose all her money just to avoid "shacking up"? moron.
Because we did want to commit to each other, we called it a "Ceremony of Commitment." And how much weight does that commitment have? Will the church enforce this commitment? does every commitment need to be "enforced"? do you only stay with your wife because you have to?
We view ourselves as being married, and I have a ring. When the ceremony was held, everyone knew what was going on. That is all fine, as long as your guests are aware of this. wait, that was my line.
GOD IS OUR WITNESS IN COLORADO wrote:
Nowhere in the Bible does a servant of God ask permission from the government to marry. The Father is more than good enough. And while there are references to "what God has joined together," there is no similar praise for what Caesar has blessed.
again, making my point about separating the religious and civil components of marriage.
These are good points. The state did not create marriage. The state merely has recognized and licensed marriage. However, if that state licensing does not go against God’s teachings, I do not see a good reason to not register a marriage with the state. oh, I see. so a representative democracy should be in the business of supporting theological teachings? since when? the state has no business in considering god's teachings at all. that's for churches. That's a big "if" these days, not only with marriage neutering (gay marriage) but with no-fault divorce and other issues. those damn feminists, acting like they have the right to live their own lives! It would make a little more sense if there was some consistency to "keeping the state out of it", such as somehow being able to avoid having birth certificates issued for any resulting children so the children of unmarried couples shouldn't get birth certificates? really? that would prevent them from entering school, getting a social security number or driver's license. basically, it would create an underclass of invisible people. nice to see your real agenda, Walrus, and not using government currency in their acquiring of "community property". again. we see his real agenda. unmarried couples aren't allowed money. Certainly anyone avoiding licensing the marriage so as to keep getting government welfare isn't keeping the Caesar out of it. again, i'm glad you're not poor, Walrus, but lots of people are. I do believe that churches should be putting more teeth into marriage. i'm not sure what marriage needs is teeth. The state may not hold someone accountable for breaking their marital vows, stone the adulterers! but churches certainly can – if that person cares to be a member of that fellowship. *sigh*
Sometimes, people miss the point so entirely, it's hard to say if they're morons, or just living in some sort of tangentially related alternate reality and only visit on weekends. Personally, I'm voting for morons, but I'll let you decide.
The Playful Walrus, writing for the Opine Editorials, writes Part 2 of Dear Abby on Weddings that aren't Legally Sanctioned. (Apparently, someone was both shocked and dismayed to unwittingly witness a- gasp!- a wedding that wasn't legally sanctioned.) Many readers of Dear Abby wrote in response, and this is one of those responses:
In this day and age, especially with jobs so scarce, a lot of young couples are finding that by becoming legally married they disqualify themselves from things like prenatal care, health care for their children and government assistance programs. This is true. It is far easier to get Medicaid, WIC, food stamps, etc. if you are single. Government assistance programs really punish you for being married, apparently under the unsupported belief that married people are never poor.
I see. Make your commitment public and stand up for your faith – unless it costs you a government hand-out. Did it ever occur to these people that married people are supposed to take care of each other, instead of relying on the state to take care of them as individuals? First of all, nobody gets married to "stand up for their faith". Mostly it's about love, romance, societal expectations, and that really great party you get afterwards. Secondly, asshat, being married does not cure poverty. Plenty of married people are poor. I'm glad you're not, but that doesn't mean other people aren't. Apparently, Walrus is from the Bill Cunningham school of class warfare.
Keep in mind, the Opiners are violently opposed to birth control and abortion, as well as premarital sex. So, poor people shouldn't use birth control to prevent pregnancies they can't afford, they certainly shouldn't get abortions, they shouldn't be having sex if they aren't married, so what the fuck are they supposed to do? Oh, I get it. Walrus has his own solution to the Demographic Winter- make sure the poor, brown folk don't breed. Ever.
In order to survive, many couples now opt to have the ceremony without the paperwork.
And what happens to the assets if there is a split? What assets are a couple too poor to afford marriage likely to have, asshat? What about support for the spouse who agreed to spend more time taking care of the home instead of earning income? IF YOU'RE TOO POOR TO GET MARRIED, YOU'RE BOTH WORKING. FUCKING MORON.
What happens if the woman gets pregnant by someone she barely knows and her "husband" wisely insists on a DNA test before he supports the pregnancy or the child, thus leaving the child without a financial father? This is so offensive, I'm not sure where to begin. "Wisely insists"? "Barely knows"? Oh, I see, poor women are immoral sluts. They'll fuck anything that moves and then try to pass of the baby as someone else's. Someone, please help me out. Does anyone know a phrase crude and offensive enough to describe Walrus?
If they refuse to get legally married or are too poor to protect their access to my tax money it's their tax money, too, asshat, then I should know so that I do not do the redundant thing and buy a gift for them. i doubt anyone is inviting you to this particular ceremony you ignorant fucker.
Another idea gaining in popularity is that unless everyone in this country has equal rights for marriage, no one should be getting married. I can see that. I doubt my not getting married would help anything, but I can see that. I bet Walrus can't.
Again, everyone already has equal access. If these people REALLY meant what they were saying, they'd sponsor constitutional amendments letting any person get a marriage license with any other person, regardless of the marital status of either party, and regardless of how closely they are related. the old "homosexuality is exactly the same as pedophilia" argument. it's ridiculous, stupid and offensive, but haven't we come to expect that from Walrus by now?
Several couples I know have married without the paperwork because they regard the alternative the same as sitting at a segregated lunch counter, and they are unwilling to support segregation. Again, I can see that. Do these people have driver’s licenses? What about people who "can't" get one of those? what the fuck is walrus talking about? solidarity with illegal aliens? the civil rights being denied the blind? if you're going to make an analogy, Walrus, make sure it actually applies first, okay? there was no reason to make me stop and think about that mess.
Many people feel there is a blatant disregard for separation of church and state and that "legal" marriages are not at all legal, but an example of government recognizing those with faith while disregarding those who have a different point of view on what family is. I totally agree with this one, both as an atheist, and as a gay rights supporter. There are countries in Europe where all legally recognized marriages are performed as civil ceremonies in front of a civil servant. If you want a religious ceremony as well, that's done separately, and is not recognized one way or the other by the state. That is exactly how we should do it here. That way, gays are equal to everyone else in the legal sense, and churches remain free to do what they want.
Walrus has this take on it: The government can't avoid getting involved in what family is or is not, considering child custody, child support, child guardianship, and inheritance issues If all marriages were civil, this wouldn't be a problem. beyond that, not allowing gays to marry is causing problems in the courts with child custody and support and inheritance issues that allowing them to marry would instantly solve. so do you really want to solve those problems, Walrus, or just throw up irrelevant arguments to shore up your hatred of Teh Gayz?
My husband and I were married by a minister, but without a marriage license because his financial problems could have adversely affected me. "For richer or poorer - well, not really." You shouldn't marry a financial disaster – whether you are male or female. You shouldn't shack up with one, either. "shacking up", huh? i guess it depends on what her situation was and his situation was. if she had lots of money that she earned herself, and his financial situation was resulting in legal judgments right and left, why should she lose all her money just to avoid "shacking up"? moron.
Because we did want to commit to each other, we called it a "Ceremony of Commitment." And how much weight does that commitment have? Will the church enforce this commitment? does every commitment need to be "enforced"? do you only stay with your wife because you have to?
We view ourselves as being married, and I have a ring. When the ceremony was held, everyone knew what was going on. That is all fine, as long as your guests are aware of this. wait, that was my line.
GOD IS OUR WITNESS IN COLORADO wrote:
Nowhere in the Bible does a servant of God ask permission from the government to marry. The Father is more than good enough. And while there are references to "what God has joined together," there is no similar praise for what Caesar has blessed.
again, making my point about separating the religious and civil components of marriage.
These are good points. The state did not create marriage. The state merely has recognized and licensed marriage. However, if that state licensing does not go against God’s teachings, I do not see a good reason to not register a marriage with the state. oh, I see. so a representative democracy should be in the business of supporting theological teachings? since when? the state has no business in considering god's teachings at all. that's for churches. That's a big "if" these days, not only with marriage neutering (gay marriage) but with no-fault divorce and other issues. those damn feminists, acting like they have the right to live their own lives! It would make a little more sense if there was some consistency to "keeping the state out of it", such as somehow being able to avoid having birth certificates issued for any resulting children so the children of unmarried couples shouldn't get birth certificates? really? that would prevent them from entering school, getting a social security number or driver's license. basically, it would create an underclass of invisible people. nice to see your real agenda, Walrus, and not using government currency in their acquiring of "community property". again. we see his real agenda. unmarried couples aren't allowed money. Certainly anyone avoiding licensing the marriage so as to keep getting government welfare isn't keeping the Caesar out of it. again, i'm glad you're not poor, Walrus, but lots of people are. I do believe that churches should be putting more teeth into marriage. i'm not sure what marriage needs is teeth. The state may not hold someone accountable for breaking their marital vows, stone the adulterers! but churches certainly can – if that person cares to be a member of that fellowship. *sigh*
Rabble Rousing Lil
Hi! I really liked your latest post. It sounds a lot like my life, to be honest, and I wanted to compliment you on it, and share a little. Unfortunately, it looks like you are having the same trouble with your comments I was. The verification image won't load, so nobody can comment. If you want, you can turn off verification from your dashboard.
I posted this because I figure that, like me, you can't tell when this is going on, and I couldn't figure out another way to contact you.
Added 2:53 EST: Odin's Daughter, it's happening to you, too. Or it's my internet. I dunno.
I posted this because I figure that, like me, you can't tell when this is going on, and I couldn't figure out another way to contact you.
Added 2:53 EST: Odin's Daughter, it's happening to you, too. Or it's my internet. I dunno.
Why the Rapture?
rapture, jesus, god, christian, christianity, insane, premillenial, dispensationalism, pretrib
In case you are not familiar with premillenial dispensationalism, it is a sect within christianity that "literally" interprets the Bible, with special emphasis on Revelation (yes, that acid trip) to come up with the idea that at the end of days, the "bride of christ" (Real True Christianstm)will be lifted bodily to heaven (naked!) to become mindless worshippers of god (no, really, they're looking forward to this) while the rest of us are tormented for 7 years by the Antichrist (no such thing in the bible), after which Jesus will return to earth to collect those who have converted, and survived, during the last 7 years, and to destroy everyone else. Jesus will reign for 1000 years, at which point Satan gets another shot at it, is defeated and then . . . well, I dunno. It's unbelievably odd. For an in depth look (or if you think I'm making this shit up, I recommend Rapture Ready. All the crazy you'll ever need!)
Recently, a poster on the Rapture Ready message boards posted a revealing poll on why this belief attracts adherents.
123 people voted.
65 want to expierence [sic] all that I have read will happen.
9 admit that they are kinda afraid to die, I'd want to be Raptured instead
4 think being alive and aware is better than rising from the dead.
1 It does not really matter to me.
1 just wants to see if it is real and true.
43 people didn't like any of those options and went for "other".
Candlelight : Just cannot wait for the thrill of seeing the Glory of Jesus and total joy and peace. I guess he means after all the tormenting and suffering and killing.
Sukie72962 needs suicide watch: I am longing to see my Lord and Savior face to face and I don't want to wait to die in order to finally see Him with my eyes, I already see Him with my heart but I want to see Him with my eyes.
Mickey is sick of life and people in general: I said "other". For me the thrill of the Rapture, is thinking I'm one moment busy with live and worrying about tomorrow, and the next lying on my face before the Throne of my King. Mostly I want this evil world to be over and done with. It would have been great to dream about growing old and having grandkids, but I'm still young...ish (34), and if life and the human race keep deteriorating at the rate that it is, I do not want to be here much longer. I yearn to be with my Lord!
I sense some serious disillusionment in store for Sundial: I feel privileged to know that my Father thought so much of me that He allowed me to live in the era that will experience the rapture. That tells me how much He loves me.
Truthlover doesn't just want to be raptured, she also wants to be right: In front of loved ones, to give them little room to doubt what happened.
Chicken5516 would be much happier with a less repressive religion: I selected 'other'....I just want out of this World and in the presence of my Lord and Savior. I'm weary of this sinful body.
Gator128, like a lot of responders, seems to like the whole flying portion of the Rapture most: i want the rapture for one reason. to meet to jesus in air and finally to be home
You know, I used to think psychiatrists were a little free with the psych meds, but now I think not enough people are taking them.
In case you are not familiar with premillenial dispensationalism, it is a sect within christianity that "literally" interprets the Bible, with special emphasis on Revelation (yes, that acid trip) to come up with the idea that at the end of days, the "bride of christ" (Real True Christianstm)will be lifted bodily to heaven (naked!) to become mindless worshippers of god (no, really, they're looking forward to this) while the rest of us are tormented for 7 years by the Antichrist (no such thing in the bible), after which Jesus will return to earth to collect those who have converted, and survived, during the last 7 years, and to destroy everyone else. Jesus will reign for 1000 years, at which point Satan gets another shot at it, is defeated and then . . . well, I dunno. It's unbelievably odd. For an in depth look (or if you think I'm making this shit up, I recommend Rapture Ready. All the crazy you'll ever need!)
Recently, a poster on the Rapture Ready message boards posted a revealing poll on why this belief attracts adherents.
123 people voted.
65 want to expierence [sic] all that I have read will happen.
9 admit that they are kinda afraid to die, I'd want to be Raptured instead
4 think being alive and aware is better than rising from the dead.
1 It does not really matter to me.
1 just wants to see if it is real and true.
43 people didn't like any of those options and went for "other".
Candlelight : Just cannot wait for the thrill of seeing the Glory of Jesus and total joy and peace. I guess he means after all the tormenting and suffering and killing.
Sukie72962 needs suicide watch: I am longing to see my Lord and Savior face to face and I don't want to wait to die in order to finally see Him with my eyes, I already see Him with my heart but I want to see Him with my eyes.
Mickey is sick of life and people in general: I said "other". For me the thrill of the Rapture, is thinking I'm one moment busy with live and worrying about tomorrow, and the next lying on my face before the Throne of my King. Mostly I want this evil world to be over and done with. It would have been great to dream about growing old and having grandkids, but I'm still young...ish (34), and if life and the human race keep deteriorating at the rate that it is, I do not want to be here much longer. I yearn to be with my Lord!
I sense some serious disillusionment in store for Sundial: I feel privileged to know that my Father thought so much of me that He allowed me to live in the era that will experience the rapture. That tells me how much He loves me.
Truthlover doesn't just want to be raptured, she also wants to be right: In front of loved ones, to give them little room to doubt what happened.
Chicken5516 would be much happier with a less repressive religion: I selected 'other'....I just want out of this World and in the presence of my Lord and Savior. I'm weary of this sinful body.
Gator128, like a lot of responders, seems to like the whole flying portion of the Rapture most: i want the rapture for one reason. to meet to jesus in air and finally to be home
You know, I used to think psychiatrists were a little free with the psych meds, but now I think not enough people are taking them.
Training Yourself Not to Think - Part I
I noticed at a young age that being a good christian requires not thinking about some things. Good christians do not think about the horrors and cruelty and bloodshed that permeates the bible. Good christians obviously don't think much about what Jesus is quoted as saying (pray quietly while alone, blessed are the peacemakers, judge not). Nor do good christians think at all about Occam's Razor (at least as it applies to their faith).
I never really expected to see anyone write an article openly spelling out that being a good christian requires one not to think.
The Pendulum Swings*
Marie Jon
I never really expected to see anyone write an article openly spelling out that being a good christian requires one not to think.
The Pendulum Swings*
Marie Jon
There are people who have many misconceptions of Christianity. Some believe it is a heavy weight of do's and don'ts piled upon one's shoulders. thinking about someone other than one's spouse is a sin. i bet everyone who read that sentence immediately committed thought adultery. having brought that up, i will now spend all day unable to do anything other than commit thought adultery. (fortunately for me, i have a fantastic imagination and no shame at all.) Others believe that it's an "if you sin, you'll go to hell" doctrine. pretty much. Some believe that preachers are only in the pulpit to make money. some of them. some of them are very sincere people who really do want to save others. not the way i'd go about it, but at least they're trying. There is the proverbial lie that God is always watching to catch you when you make a mistake "proverbial" lie? if god is omniscient, than god does indeed know when you make a mistake, though i suppose we could classify that as a byproduct of being omniscient rather than intent., and there's the pesky inconvenience of attending church in the first place. meh.
The human mind can create a list of impossible expectations ummm . . . what exactly would qualify as an impossible expection from an OMNIPOTENT being? that lead to fear and a spiritual disconnect of hopelessness. atheism? Eventually, people who feel this way close their Bibles and never darken the doors of a church. in fact, they may well be reading my blog right now! to which i say "stop reading and go commit some thought adultery. i won't tell." They make the decision simply not to believe in God anymore.
FULL STOP
nobody "decides" to believe or not believe. it's not something you can turn on and off. belief is like love. you can't simply decide to love someone, nor can you decide to stop loving someone. in fact, i would guess that a certain number of agnostics are people who intellectually are atheists, but haven't lost that last vestige of belief.
I suppose one could say some "divorce" God and banish Him from their lives forevermore see above, but do these same people become born-again atheists she means atheists that aren't afraid to speak their minds.? Too often, non-believers come face to face with a hell of their own making. what?
Living with occasional doubt oh, i see, we're not even going to try to prove the last statement.
I realize that my thoughts are probably not going to reach many atheists. i'd be surprised if they reached any However, my writings proclaim the existence and the power of a loving God. not so far. Often, I do touch the hearts of skeptics, doubters, and a few scoffers can i have some proof here? is that too much to ask? i don't claim to regularly defaith people, because i couldn't possibly back up that statement. mostly i just amuse other atheists. Most likely, you are a person who fits the profile of the believer in God who is sympathetic to the idea that there is a Creator who cares. You probably believe as I do, and want to live your life as Jesus did when He was here on this earth. you want to be homeless, poor, hunted by the authorities and tortured to death?
I believe in God and His word. However, doubts occasionally sneak in. They really do. I then begin to wonder if it's all true. Did God come to Earth? Will there be a Second Coming? you're not quite hitting the atheist level of doubt yet, then. At times, do preachers and the founders of our churches unknowingly deceive themselves and others? yes, the answer to that would be yes. they also knowingly deceive others. it happens. Could it be that their faith is merely wishful thinking? that is indeed a possibility, yes.
The famous author Clive Staples Lewis (better known as CS Lewis) found faith late in life. After many years of a fulfilling Christian walk, he confessed that, at times, he had his doubts. This is common among believers while on their way to becoming mature, well-grounded Christians. The pendulum* swings for many. There are days when it is easy to believe in the existence of God. Then there are times when we wonder where God is. However, it is interesting that the pendulum* of inner doubts and questioning does not just affect Christians. It swings for atheists, also. why yes, atheists do convert to theism. theists also become atheists. the more things change and all that. For you see, it was C.S. Lewis' direct admission that he lived on both sides of the fence. He was an atheist who eventually became settled in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and lived out the rest of his life as a believer in Him.
Please understand that whichever view you embrace, your feelings will continually attack your convictions. i'm having this Jerry Springer "you don't know me!" moment, but she's probably right. doubt is the human condition. Just as Christians have their moments, atheists have their misgivings. If you believe in God, there will still be times when it seems that this material world is the only reality. Disbelieve in the Almighty God, and you must face hours when the material world seems to shout God does exists. okay, that doesn't happen to me. i occasionally do wonder if maybe, just maybe, the fact that everyone seems so damn sure of it means something, and then i remember that an appeal to popularity is a ridiculous argument. That is the atheist's often-undisclosed dilemma. or one atheist's dilemma Lewis explained that if we are believers, we need to fortify ourselves against doubts. here's the honesty i spoke of earlier: in order to believe you have to figure out how not to think too hard about what itis you believe. He used a phrase "train the habit of faith."
Daily prayer is a must, and spending meaningful time giving great thought to Who we believe in strengthens us. or prevents us from thinking about other things. In other words, fixing our minds on God's love for us becomes factual truth. sure. i absolutely could convince myself of any kind of crazy shit i wanted to if i really wanted to. that doesn't make it "factual truth". Christ died so we could have eternal life and live life here "more abundantly." god sacrificed god to god to change a rule god made. explain that to me. Meditate on the cross of Calvary if you're going to meditate, i don't suggest trying to meditate on bloody imagery. sort of defeats the purpose, and consider how the Savior of the world, who left the glories of heaven, rendered us an enormous gift that came at an agonizing sacrifice. woopity-do-dah. he suffered for 3 days. then he rested for a little bit and came back to life. anybody who spent time in a concentration camp suffered more than that.
It is amazing that atheism has become such a force in our world. yeah, it's such a force that presidents claim we're not citizens and "she's an atheist" is the worst insult some people can think of. we're just poised for the takeover! It is truly sad when many intelligent men and women who are philosophers, educators, and scholars trust only in their human wisdom. i suppose i could trust in your human wisdom, but it's easier to go with my own. either way, it's all human wisdom. They've taken the leap of faith into the void of an empty universe. um, what? my universe is full of stuff. you know, like planets and stars and stuff. In Psalms, God's Word says: "The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'" (Psalms 14:1). if i ever get a hold of a time machine, i am going to find the person who wrote that and beat them with a stick while shouting "who's the fool now, bitch?!" We love to call the atheist a fool. yes, isn't insulting people fun? And our history books are full of colorful stories of brilliant people who have gazed at the stars and foolishly said, "It means nothing. The planets and galaxies got here by themselves, and so did we." life isn't meaningless, and i'm rather wary of people who can't find it's meaning without resorting to what somebody else tells them is the meaning. Strange that these leaders, authors, historians, and statesmen often don't seem to be fools. maybe cause they're not fool? occam's razor. I suppose some could make the argument that if these brilliant human beings don't believe, how can you and I stay on the safe path of righteousness? self delusion is a powerful force.
This is getting rather long, so we'll have to review the rest of this fascinating look into the art of self delusion later.
*being a hopeless Gears of War addict, the word "pendulum" makes me think of the Pendulum Wars, as in "Lot of good soldiers from the Pendulum Wars buried here. Sure could use those men now."Pancake Eating Atheists
comfort, ray, evolution, evangelical, evangelism, evangelist, christian, bible, god, jesus, witness, asshat, stupid,
Let's review Ray Comfort's* latest screed against atheists, from zimbio.com. (I'm not sure why, but he was a guest blogger on zimbio on February 2. I guess Shakespeare's mythical monkeys were booked.)
The Miracle of Atheism
by Ray Comfort
I was a pastor for three and a half years. Three and a half years in the Bible is the time of tribulation. I honestly don't know what he's talking about. Premillenial dispensationalists believe that the Rapture will happen (god whisks the faithful heaven bodily- and naked!) then there are 7 years of tribulation, then . . . well, then it gets really weird from there. somewhere in those 7 years is a 3.5 year drought. maybe that's what Mr. Comfort is referencing. I disliked the experience intensely. probably not enough money in it. not a lot of fame, either. I didn’t like being trapped between four walls listening to people unload their problems those damn parishioners, expecting you to listen to them! how dare they!, and it was a breath of fresh air when I began to get invitations for me why would you get invitations for anyone else? to travel and speak. it would be a little odd to get invitations purely to travel.
It was the publication of my first book in 1977 that opened doors for me. It was about drug abuse, and it was eventually made into a documentary. My Friends Are Dying: the causes, the effects and the cure to drug abuse. The documentary, I can't find any mention of When I sent my cameraman to get some B-roll he captured a fight between rival gangs. They were using knives and axes, axes? really? axes? more than one? i can see one crazy asshole showing up with an ax, but several? and the footage was immediately seized by police and used as Supreme Court evidence.
I suspect this to be a lie. A really big lie. I just went through every Supreme Court case from 1977-1979 and could find no mention of such a case. Maybe, just maybe, Mr. Comfort is referring to the Supreme Court of California, which is entirely different from "the Supreme Court". Even so, that seems unlikely. Supreme Courts don't hear cases involving drug possession and assault with a deadly weapon. Cases only go the a supreme court on appeal, and appeals have to do with procedural issues, constitutionality of a rule or law itself, that sort of thing.
The ensuing publicity and the inclusion of the clip in the film generated national publicity, and over 2,000 showed up for the premiere (over 1,000 didn’t make it into the theater and a second screening had to be hurriedly arranged). Again, I can find no mention of this incident or the documentary at all. The itinerant ministry was also helped by the fact that for 12 years I spoke almost daily at what was called “Speaker’s Corner” in the heart of our city. Does Mr. Comfort ever give specifics? What city? There were always atheists in the crowd, and they were always vocal, perhaps spurred on by a T-shirt I wore that said, “I don’t believe in atheists.” yes, Mr. Comfort, I will grant you your ability to gain attention. 2 year olds are really good at that, too. It was my continually addressing the issue of the existence of God that lead me to publish a booklet called The Atheist Test no, it's not. it's your inexplicable obsessive hatred of atheists that led to that ridiculous booklet. , that was a simple test that showed the atheist that he didn't exist. no, it didn't. duh. i'm an atheist. i exist, ergo . . . dumbass. It sold more than a million copies.
Late in 2007, a courageous Christian dropped a handful of these booklets at a gathering of staunch atheists. wow, he's even more courageous than firefighters running into burning buildings or soldiers going to battle. dropping booklets on a table and walking away is just the height of courage. These people were so committed to the belief that God didn’t exist they met once a month at the local IHOP (International House of Pancakes) at the John Wayne Airport in Orange County, California.
what? stop and think about that. christians meet between once a week and every day in churches. jews meet once a week. muslims (i think) meet once a week. book clubs meet at least once a month. wow, they're the most dedicated atheists i've ever heard of.
When they found out that I authored the booklet, they kindly invited me to join them for dinner on January 8th, 2008. at the IHOP? They requested that I get there an hour early to “set a baseline,” because some of their members “do get a bit hot-headed when discussing religion.” nice of them to warn you. I accepted their invitation and decided to take my manager with me. you needed your manager in order to informally discuss religion with a group of atheists? really? Mark Spence is the dean of the “School of Biblical Evangelism.” he's the "dean" of an online, unaccredited course in evangelism. dean. seriously? does Mr. Comfort ever say anything that's entirely true?
Before we went, I received permission from them to also take a handheld camera. I was determined not to go there to win an argument, but to simply show that I deeply cared for them as people, nope, nothing Mr. Comfort says is entirely true. which commandment is that, Mr. Comfort? as most atheists in this category what category? pancake eating atheists? have the impression that Christians don’t like them. because of asshats like you, asshat.
We arrived about five minutes early, shook hands and sat down. why do I care that everyone arrived 5 minutes early? wait a minute, one paragraph ago, you were supposed to get there an hour early. so, you were actually 55 minutes late. After the orders were taken, I quietly approached the waiter and told him to give me the bill for the entire party. When he brought it to me I was almost shaking with excitement.why? If someone had tried to take it off me I would have physically fought them. weird. I felt like I used to feel with my kids early on Christmas morning. again, why? When they found out that I had personally paid the tab they were very grateful, polite, pleasant, kind, and extremely thankful those pathetic atheists and their cheap, cheap ways.(see 1 Peter 2:15).
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: basically, Mr. Comfort is using a bible quote to demonstrate that most people are polite enough not to be rude to the guy who paid for their meal, but he's also calling those same people "fools". sorry, Mr. Comfort, if the price of the meal is you calling me names, I can damn well pay for my own meal.
The experience was a highlight of my life. you have children, but forcing atheists to be nice to you by paying for dinner is a highlight of your life?! Then about ten of us huddled around a table and talked about the things of God for about an hour. It was up close and personal. Mark Spence answered every question and objection they had, calmly and eloquently. I took copies of my new book, How to Know God Exists, and all the folks at our table wanted one (it’s a strange feeling signing books for atheists) who are somewhat like humans, but not quite. Then we posed for pictures, and left, almost bursting with joy after such a wonderful opportunity to meet and talk with these dear people. and the smarmy meter hit 10!
moving along to completely unrelated events that make Mr. Comfort look cool:
I am very fortunate in that I co-host an award-winning television program with actor Kirk Cameron. It’s in its third season, is aired in 70 countries, and is on 31 networks. why doesn't he ever give people fucking names! It's called The Way of the Master and has won The show has won the National Religious Broadcasters' People’s Choice 2004, 2005, 2006, and Best Program, 2005 and 2006. it's not a freakin' Emmy, Ray. This has helped to raise my profile (not my popularity) in the atheist community. actually, i had no freakin' idea that this show existed. your profile in the atheist community is high because you continually insult us and tell credulous idiots that we're immoral psychopaths. thanks for making children afraid of us, Ray. asshat. On one of our programs, Kirk and I took an orangutan to lunch to discuss the subject of evolution. you brought a wild animal to a restaurant for what? I also called eight major airlines and asked if I could take an orangutan on board a plane with me, because he was a “relative.” you bothered innocent customer service representatives, who make a little more than minimum wage, with this ridiculous request? to say that you deliberately misrepresent evolution is to say that water is wet, Ray. Every one of the airlines said that he had to go into the cargo hold. Needless to say, the program isn’t very popular with atheists. and would you enjoy a TV show that insulted christians nonstop? of course not. However, these things (and the fact the ABC TV hosted a debate between Kirk and myself and two atheists NAMES!) have given me some sort of reputation Jeffrey Dahmer also had "some sort of reputation", and they daily frequent my blog and bombard me with questions. questions like "Ray, I've explained this 76 times already and you still tell the same lies. Do you just not read the comments, or are you deliberately lying?" Some of them boil with anger, others mock, and some are polite. almost all are polite. much more polite than Ray. But all of them obey the rules and make sure that they give God a capital “G.” If they don’t, their comment is deleted. my comments almost always get deleted. and I capitalize god, bible, and jesus and i don't use curse words.
In a day when the foolishness of atheism is gaining credibility with so many again with the namecalling. asshat., I thought it would be unique and extremely beneficial to publish questions that were asked by these atheists, along with my answers i could have come up with those answers by randomly combining Jesus, God and pray in a Mad Libs fashion. As soon as I had that thought, there was a big bang, and out came the book. Amazingly, the text fell together, the page numbers fell in line, it bound itself, the cover designed itself, and then out of nowhere a title evolved: You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think. Incredibly, there was no author, no printer, and no publisher. It was a modern miracle. What sort of crazy person would you think I was if I said that nobody wrote the book? That really is crazy-talk. So why would anyone give any credibility to an atheist? *sigh* that's just insane, doesn't address the Big Bang theory at all, doesn't address evolution in any substantive way, AND if Ray did read the comments on his blog, he'd know better.
*Why do I harp on Mr. Comfort so much? Mr. Comfort despises atheists. One would think atheists broke into his house, burned it to the ground, then stood outside and laughed while anally raping his grandmother and pouring sugar into the gas tank of his brand new SUV. It's unhealthy how obsessed he is with atheists.
Let's review Ray Comfort's* latest screed against atheists, from zimbio.com. (I'm not sure why, but he was a guest blogger on zimbio on February 2. I guess Shakespeare's mythical monkeys were booked.)
The Miracle of Atheism
by Ray Comfort
I was a pastor for three and a half years. Three and a half years in the Bible is the time of tribulation. I honestly don't know what he's talking about. Premillenial dispensationalists believe that the Rapture will happen (god whisks the faithful heaven bodily- and naked!) then there are 7 years of tribulation, then . . . well, then it gets really weird from there. somewhere in those 7 years is a 3.5 year drought. maybe that's what Mr. Comfort is referencing. I disliked the experience intensely. probably not enough money in it. not a lot of fame, either. I didn’t like being trapped between four walls listening to people unload their problems those damn parishioners, expecting you to listen to them! how dare they!, and it was a breath of fresh air when I began to get invitations for me why would you get invitations for anyone else? to travel and speak. it would be a little odd to get invitations purely to travel.
It was the publication of my first book in 1977 that opened doors for me. It was about drug abuse, and it was eventually made into a documentary. My Friends Are Dying: the causes, the effects and the cure to drug abuse. The documentary, I can't find any mention of When I sent my cameraman to get some B-roll he captured a fight between rival gangs. They were using knives and axes, axes? really? axes? more than one? i can see one crazy asshole showing up with an ax, but several? and the footage was immediately seized by police and used as Supreme Court evidence.
I suspect this to be a lie. A really big lie. I just went through every Supreme Court case from 1977-1979 and could find no mention of such a case. Maybe, just maybe, Mr. Comfort is referring to the Supreme Court of California, which is entirely different from "the Supreme Court". Even so, that seems unlikely. Supreme Courts don't hear cases involving drug possession and assault with a deadly weapon. Cases only go the a supreme court on appeal, and appeals have to do with procedural issues, constitutionality of a rule or law itself, that sort of thing.
The ensuing publicity and the inclusion of the clip in the film generated national publicity, and over 2,000 showed up for the premiere (over 1,000 didn’t make it into the theater and a second screening had to be hurriedly arranged). Again, I can find no mention of this incident or the documentary at all. The itinerant ministry was also helped by the fact that for 12 years I spoke almost daily at what was called “Speaker’s Corner” in the heart of our city. Does Mr. Comfort ever give specifics? What city? There were always atheists in the crowd, and they were always vocal, perhaps spurred on by a T-shirt I wore that said, “I don’t believe in atheists.” yes, Mr. Comfort, I will grant you your ability to gain attention. 2 year olds are really good at that, too. It was my continually addressing the issue of the existence of God that lead me to publish a booklet called The Atheist Test no, it's not. it's your inexplicable obsessive hatred of atheists that led to that ridiculous booklet. , that was a simple test that showed the atheist that he didn't exist. no, it didn't. duh. i'm an atheist. i exist, ergo . . . dumbass. It sold more than a million copies.
Late in 2007, a courageous Christian dropped a handful of these booklets at a gathering of staunch atheists. wow, he's even more courageous than firefighters running into burning buildings or soldiers going to battle. dropping booklets on a table and walking away is just the height of courage. These people were so committed to the belief that God didn’t exist they met once a month at the local IHOP (International House of Pancakes) at the John Wayne Airport in Orange County, California.
what? stop and think about that. christians meet between once a week and every day in churches. jews meet once a week. muslims (i think) meet once a week. book clubs meet at least once a month. wow, they're the most dedicated atheists i've ever heard of.
When they found out that I authored the booklet, they kindly invited me to join them for dinner on January 8th, 2008. at the IHOP? They requested that I get there an hour early to “set a baseline,” because some of their members “do get a bit hot-headed when discussing religion.” nice of them to warn you. I accepted their invitation and decided to take my manager with me. you needed your manager in order to informally discuss religion with a group of atheists? really? Mark Spence is the dean of the “School of Biblical Evangelism.” he's the "dean" of an online, unaccredited course in evangelism. dean. seriously? does Mr. Comfort ever say anything that's entirely true?
Before we went, I received permission from them to also take a handheld camera. I was determined not to go there to win an argument, but to simply show that I deeply cared for them as people, nope, nothing Mr. Comfort says is entirely true. which commandment is that, Mr. Comfort? as most atheists in this category what category? pancake eating atheists? have the impression that Christians don’t like them. because of asshats like you, asshat.
We arrived about five minutes early, shook hands and sat down. why do I care that everyone arrived 5 minutes early? wait a minute, one paragraph ago, you were supposed to get there an hour early. so, you were actually 55 minutes late. After the orders were taken, I quietly approached the waiter and told him to give me the bill for the entire party. When he brought it to me I was almost shaking with excitement.why? If someone had tried to take it off me I would have physically fought them. weird. I felt like I used to feel with my kids early on Christmas morning. again, why? When they found out that I had personally paid the tab they were very grateful, polite, pleasant, kind, and extremely thankful those pathetic atheists and their cheap, cheap ways.(see 1 Peter 2:15).
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: basically, Mr. Comfort is using a bible quote to demonstrate that most people are polite enough not to be rude to the guy who paid for their meal, but he's also calling those same people "fools". sorry, Mr. Comfort, if the price of the meal is you calling me names, I can damn well pay for my own meal.
The experience was a highlight of my life. you have children, but forcing atheists to be nice to you by paying for dinner is a highlight of your life?! Then about ten of us huddled around a table and talked about the things of God for about an hour. It was up close and personal. Mark Spence answered every question and objection they had, calmly and eloquently. I took copies of my new book, How to Know God Exists, and all the folks at our table wanted one (it’s a strange feeling signing books for atheists) who are somewhat like humans, but not quite. Then we posed for pictures, and left, almost bursting with joy after such a wonderful opportunity to meet and talk with these dear people. and the smarmy meter hit 10!
moving along to completely unrelated events that make Mr. Comfort look cool:
I am very fortunate in that I co-host an award-winning television program with actor Kirk Cameron. It’s in its third season, is aired in 70 countries, and is on 31 networks. why doesn't he ever give people fucking names! It's called The Way of the Master and has won The show has won the National Religious Broadcasters' People’s Choice 2004, 2005, 2006, and Best Program, 2005 and 2006. it's not a freakin' Emmy, Ray. This has helped to raise my profile (not my popularity) in the atheist community. actually, i had no freakin' idea that this show existed. your profile in the atheist community is high because you continually insult us and tell credulous idiots that we're immoral psychopaths. thanks for making children afraid of us, Ray. asshat. On one of our programs, Kirk and I took an orangutan to lunch to discuss the subject of evolution. you brought a wild animal to a restaurant for what? I also called eight major airlines and asked if I could take an orangutan on board a plane with me, because he was a “relative.” you bothered innocent customer service representatives, who make a little more than minimum wage, with this ridiculous request? to say that you deliberately misrepresent evolution is to say that water is wet, Ray. Every one of the airlines said that he had to go into the cargo hold. Needless to say, the program isn’t very popular with atheists. and would you enjoy a TV show that insulted christians nonstop? of course not. However, these things (and the fact the ABC TV hosted a debate between Kirk and myself and two atheists NAMES!) have given me some sort of reputation Jeffrey Dahmer also had "some sort of reputation", and they daily frequent my blog and bombard me with questions. questions like "Ray, I've explained this 76 times already and you still tell the same lies. Do you just not read the comments, or are you deliberately lying?" Some of them boil with anger, others mock, and some are polite. almost all are polite. much more polite than Ray. But all of them obey the rules and make sure that they give God a capital “G.” If they don’t, their comment is deleted. my comments almost always get deleted. and I capitalize god, bible, and jesus and i don't use curse words.
In a day when the foolishness of atheism is gaining credibility with so many again with the namecalling. asshat., I thought it would be unique and extremely beneficial to publish questions that were asked by these atheists, along with my answers i could have come up with those answers by randomly combining Jesus, God and pray in a Mad Libs fashion. As soon as I had that thought, there was a big bang, and out came the book. Amazingly, the text fell together, the page numbers fell in line, it bound itself, the cover designed itself, and then out of nowhere a title evolved: You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think. Incredibly, there was no author, no printer, and no publisher. It was a modern miracle. What sort of crazy person would you think I was if I said that nobody wrote the book? That really is crazy-talk. So why would anyone give any credibility to an atheist? *sigh* that's just insane, doesn't address the Big Bang theory at all, doesn't address evolution in any substantive way, AND if Ray did read the comments on his blog, he'd know better.
*Why do I harp on Mr. Comfort so much? Mr. Comfort despises atheists. One would think atheists broke into his house, burned it to the ground, then stood outside and laughed while anally raping his grandmother and pouring sugar into the gas tank of his brand new SUV. It's unhealthy how obsessed he is with atheists.
Sunday, February 22, 2009
Potential
feminism, feminist, pregnant, law, mandatory, testing, abortion, prochoice, prolife,
Rob asks: If people are so concerned about preventing the embryo from fulfilling its potential, wouldn't forced parenthood prevent the woman from fulfilling her potential?
answer 1: in the real world, yes. that's why people tend to get upset about girls in high school having babies. very, very few of them end up graduating from college. it requires a tremendous support system and a great deal of determination.
answer 2: there's another world out there, Rob. a world in which i have no value. none at all. presumably, you find me to be valuable in some small way. you bother to read what i write, and are inspired to comment on it, so you must find some value in me. others do not. not because they don't enjoy my writing, but because i have a uterus.
children, as you have noted, are ultimately important. more important than anything else. however, once a girl reaches child bearing age, in this world, she ceases to have any value at all. her only value is in her ability to incubate babies, which is no value at all, really. any mammal can do that.
imagine a world in which you have no value outside of your uterus. you have no control over your own body. your thoughts, dreams, desires are all of no consequence at all. you are exactly the same as a dog used to breed purebred puppies for sale.
consider laws that have been proposed concerning adult citizens of the US. recently, a law was proposed to make it mandatory to test women for alcohol and drug use if they did not receive prenatal care in the first trimester or had a premature birth for no discernable reason.
think about that one for a second. firstly, it is not illegal for women to drink alcohol. secondly, it is common for women not to realize they are pregnant until the second trimester. i know 2 women in the last year for whom this was the case. (most women don't really "show" until the second trimester, and a lot of women get what seems to be their period during the first trimester. some women get it the entire pregnancy.) i know at least one of these women is a social drinker, so she certainly was drinking while pregnant. (this happens a lot, too. her baby is fine.)
i begin to see why it is common for certain groups to marry young, after a short acquaintance. if the only possible value of a women is her ability to breed, what difference does it make who she is? who cares about her personality? talents don't matter, because breeding doesn't require talent.
if you want to see where this sort of thinking eventually leads, i suggest checking out The Handmaid's Tale. or the holocaust.
Rob asks: If people are so concerned about preventing the embryo from fulfilling its potential, wouldn't forced parenthood prevent the woman from fulfilling her potential?
answer 1: in the real world, yes. that's why people tend to get upset about girls in high school having babies. very, very few of them end up graduating from college. it requires a tremendous support system and a great deal of determination.
answer 2: there's another world out there, Rob. a world in which i have no value. none at all. presumably, you find me to be valuable in some small way. you bother to read what i write, and are inspired to comment on it, so you must find some value in me. others do not. not because they don't enjoy my writing, but because i have a uterus.
children, as you have noted, are ultimately important. more important than anything else. however, once a girl reaches child bearing age, in this world, she ceases to have any value at all. her only value is in her ability to incubate babies, which is no value at all, really. any mammal can do that.
imagine a world in which you have no value outside of your uterus. you have no control over your own body. your thoughts, dreams, desires are all of no consequence at all. you are exactly the same as a dog used to breed purebred puppies for sale.
consider laws that have been proposed concerning adult citizens of the US. recently, a law was proposed to make it mandatory to test women for alcohol and drug use if they did not receive prenatal care in the first trimester or had a premature birth for no discernable reason.
think about that one for a second. firstly, it is not illegal for women to drink alcohol. secondly, it is common for women not to realize they are pregnant until the second trimester. i know 2 women in the last year for whom this was the case. (most women don't really "show" until the second trimester, and a lot of women get what seems to be their period during the first trimester. some women get it the entire pregnancy.) i know at least one of these women is a social drinker, so she certainly was drinking while pregnant. (this happens a lot, too. her baby is fine.)
i begin to see why it is common for certain groups to marry young, after a short acquaintance. if the only possible value of a women is her ability to breed, what difference does it make who she is? who cares about her personality? talents don't matter, because breeding doesn't require talent.
if you want to see where this sort of thinking eventually leads, i suggest checking out The Handmaid's Tale. or the holocaust.
Saturday, February 21, 2009
Feel Free to Rip the Racist!
racism, obama, prolife, advertising, stupid,
This is the response from "anonymous" I got from the previous post, Obama's Pro Life Ad. (I suspect Pearl, seeing as how she finds all kinds of nonironic things ironic, but obviously, I don't know.)
I'm still installing laminate flooring, so feel free to rip the racist. (and please do explain exactly why that is racist. hint: even if every black person in the US voted for Obama, they're still only about 15% of the population.)
Has President Obama been so weak in stating a Pro Choice position as President that the President would not be able to over come the Superbowl ad?
If a black person is both against affirmative action and also benefited from affirmative action, journalist should not be allowed to state the irony?
This is the response from "anonymous" I got from the previous post, Obama's Pro Life Ad. (I suspect Pearl, seeing as how she finds all kinds of nonironic things ironic, but obviously, I don't know.)
I'm still installing laminate flooring, so feel free to rip the racist. (and please do explain exactly why that is racist. hint: even if every black person in the US voted for Obama, they're still only about 15% of the population.)
Has President Obama been so weak in stating a Pro Choice position as President that the President would not be able to over come the Superbowl ad?
If a black person is both against affirmative action and also benefited from affirmative action, journalist should not be allowed to state the irony?
Obama's Pro Life Ad
abortion, obama, cnn, nbc, advertising, prolife, prochoice, lie
The prolife blogosphere has been abuzz since shortly before the Superbowl about a prolife ad that NBC refused to air. The ad used Barack Obama as an example of a person who might have been aborted, but wasn't. (They've done this such notables as Mozart and Beethovan. I like the example of Hitler, but I guess that's not the point.)
It's obvious why NBC refused to air the ad: respect for the POTUS, a person who is pro choice, and who has not agreed to allow his name or life story to be used in a pro life ad. Heather, however, has a unique take on this:
Our ad does not suggest that Barack Obama is pro-life. Instead, our ad presents nothing but facts. President Obama, like every human being, began as an unborn child. Because he was born, he was able to become the President of the United States.
The prolife blogosphere has been abuzz since shortly before the Superbowl about a prolife ad that NBC refused to air. The ad used Barack Obama as an example of a person who might have been aborted, but wasn't. (They've done this such notables as Mozart and Beethovan. I like the example of Hitler, but I guess that's not the point.)
It's obvious why NBC refused to air the ad: respect for the POTUS, a person who is pro choice, and who has not agreed to allow his name or life story to be used in a pro life ad. Heather, however, has a unique take on this:
Our ad does not suggest that Barack Obama is pro-life. Instead, our ad presents nothing but facts. President Obama, like every human being, began as an unborn child. Because he was born, he was able to become the President of the United States.
CNN and others simply don't like the obvious conclusion of our ad - there was no ‘choice' for abortion back in 1961. Thankfully, we had laws then safeguarding unborn children -- laws that protected the life of a future president who tragically is unwilling to fight for those same protections today.
That is disingenuous at best. You are using the name and life story of a living person, the POTUS no less, to support a viewpoint he doesn't hold. We don't know how Beethoven might have felt about abortion, and he's not alive to tell us. We know exactly how Obama feels about abortion, and to suggest that this ad would do anything less than imply- strongly- that Obama is prolife, is to lie.
If you have to lie to make your point, you don't have one.
Someone Call Chris Buttars!
I have used power tools! Successfully*, even. A miter saw and a jig saw. (Laying laminate wood floors is easier than you'd think.)
Let me tell you, if you want to feel powerful, saw something. It was loud, I'm sneezing sawdust, and I am now the uberfeminist. Gloria Steinem has nothing on me!
Somebody better call Chris Buttars, cause my vagina is now more of a threat to the US than gays!
*by that, I mean that I cut what I meant to cut, more or less into the shape I meant it to be, and nobody lost an eye.
Let me tell you, if you want to feel powerful, saw something. It was loud, I'm sneezing sawdust, and I am now the uberfeminist. Gloria Steinem has nothing on me!
Somebody better call Chris Buttars, cause my vagina is now more of a threat to the US than gays!
*by that, I mean that I cut what I meant to cut, more or less into the shape I meant it to be, and nobody lost an eye.
Friday, February 20, 2009
Comments Are Down
UPDATE 4:03 pm EST: comments appear to be back up, so go nuts, people!
You may have noticed that you can't comment on my posts. The verification picture won't display, keeping you from finishing a comment. While this is not something I have control over, I apologize sincerely. I really do enjoy the comments that I get from you, so if you wouldn't mind trying again later, I would really appreciate it.
Personal Failure
You may have noticed that you can't comment on my posts. The verification picture won't display, keeping you from finishing a comment. While this is not something I have control over, I apologize sincerely. I really do enjoy the comments that I get from you, so if you wouldn't mind trying again later, I would really appreciate it.
Personal Failure
Atheists Really Like Pancakes
comfort, ray, evolution, evangelical, evangelism, evangelist, christian, bible, god, jesus, witness, asshat, stupid,
Let's review Ray Comfort's* latest screed against atheists, from zimbio.com. (I'm not sure why, but he was a guest blogger on zimbio on February 2. I guess Shakespeare's mythical monkeys were booked.)
*Why do I harp on Mr. Comfort so much? Mr. Comfort despises atheists. One would think atheists broke into his house, burned it to the ground, then stood outside and laughed while anally raping his grandmother and pouring sugar into the gas tank of his brand new SUV. It's unhealthy how obsessed he is with atheists.
Let's review Ray Comfort's* latest screed against atheists, from zimbio.com. (I'm not sure why, but he was a guest blogger on zimbio on February 2. I guess Shakespeare's mythical monkeys were booked.)
The Miracle of Atheism
by Ray Comfort
I was a pastor for three and a half years. Three and a half years in the Bible is the time of tribulation. I honestly don't know what he's talking about. Premillenial dispensationalists believe that the Rapture will happen (god whisks the faithful heaven bodily- and naked!) then there are 7 years of tribulation, then . . . well, then it gets really weird from there. somewhere in those 7 years is a 3.5 year drought. maybe that's what Mr. Comfort is referencing. I disliked the experience intensely. probably not enough money in it. not a lot of fame, either. I didn’t like being trapped between four walls listening to people unload their problems those damn parishioners, expecting you to listen to them! how dare they!, and it was a breath of fresh air when I began to get invitations for me why would you get invitations for anyone else? to travel and speak. it would be a little odd to get invitations purely to travel.
It was the publication of my first book in 1977 that opened doors for me. My Friends Are Dying: the causes, the effects and the cure to drug abuse. The documentary, I can't find any mention of It was about drug abuse, and it was eventually made into a documentary. When I sent my cameraman to get some B-roll he captured a fight between rival gangs. They were using knives and axes, axes? really? axes? more than one? i can see one crazy asshole showing up with an ax, but several? and the footage was immediately seized by police and used as Supreme Court evidence.
I suspect this to be a lie. A really big lie. I just went through every Supreme Court case from 1977-1979 and could find no mention of such a case. Maybe, just maybe, Mr. Comfort is referring to the Supreme Court of California, which is entirely different from "the Supreme Court". Even so, that seems unlikely. Supreme Courts don't hear cases involving drug possession and assault with a deadly weapon. Cases only go the a supreme court on appeal, and appeals have to do with procedural issues, constitutionality of a rule or law itself, that sort of thing.
The ensuing publicity and the inclusion of the clip in the film generated national publicity, and over 2,000 showed up for the premiere (over 1,000 didn’t make it into the theater and a second screening had to be hurriedly arranged). Again, I can find no mention of this incident or the documentary at all. The itinerant ministry was also helped by the fact that for 12 years I spoke almost daily at what was called “Speaker’s Corner” in the heart of our city. Does Mr. Comfort ever give specifics? What city? There were always atheists in the crowd, and they were always vocal, perhaps spurred on by a T-shirt I wore that said, “I don’t believe in atheists.” yes, Mr. Comfort, I will grant you your ability to gain attention. 2 year olds are really good at that, too. It was my continually addressing the issue of the existence of God that lead me to publish a booklet called The Atheist Test no, it's not. it's your inexplicable obsessive hatred of atheists that led to that ridiculous booklet. , that was a simple test that showed the atheist that he didn't exist. no, it didn't. duh. i'm an atheist. i exist, ergo . . . dumbass. It sold more than a million copies.
Late in 2007, a courageous Christian dropped a handful of these booklets at a gathering of staunch atheists. wow, he's even more courageous than firefighters running into burning buildings or soldiers going to battle. dropping booklets on a table and walking away is just the height of courage. These people were so committed to the belief that God didn’t exist they met once a month at the local IHOP (International House of Pancakes) at the John Wayne Airport in Orange County, California.
what? stop and think about that. christians meet between once a week and every day in churches. jews meet once a week. muslims (i think) meet once a week. book clubs meet at least once a month. wow, they're the most dedicated atheists i've ever heard of.
When they found out that I authored the booklet, they kindly invited me to join them for dinner on January 8th, 2008. at the IHOP? They requested that I get there an hour early to “set a baseline,” because some of their members “do get a bit hot-headed when discussing religion.” nice of them to warn you. I accepted their invitation and decided to take my manager with me. you needed your manager in order to informally discuss religion with a group of atheists? really? Mark Spence is the dean of the “School of Biblical Evangelism.” he's the "dean" of an online, unaccredited course in evangelism. dean. seriously? does Mr. Comfort ever say anything that's entirely true?
Before we went, I received permission from them to also take a handheld camera. I was determined not to go there to win an argument, but to simply show that I deeply cared for them as people, nope, nothing Mr. Comfort says is entirely true. which commandment is that, Mr. Comfort? as most atheists in this category what category? pancake eating atheists? have the impression that Christians don’t like them. because of asshats like you, asshat.
We arrived about five minutes early, shook hands and sat down. why do I care that everyone arrived 5 minutes early? wait a minute, one paragraph ago, you were supposed to get there an hour early. so, you were actually 55 minutes late. After the orders were taken, I quietly approached the waiter and told him to give me the bill for the entire party. When he brought it to me I was almost shaking with excitement.why? If someone had tried to take it off me I would have physically fought them. weird. I felt like I used to feel with my kids early on Christmas morning. again, why? When they found out that I had personally paid the tab they were very grateful, polite, pleasant, kind, and extremely thankful those pathetic atheists and their cheap, cheap ways.(see 1 Peter 2:15).
For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: basically, Mr. Comfort is using a bible quote to demonstrate that most people are polite enough not to be rude to the guy who paid for their meal, but he's also calling those same people "fools". sorry, Mr. Comfort, if the price of the meal is you calling me names, I can damn well pay for my own meal.
The experience was a highlight of my life. you have children, but forcing atheists to be nice to you by paying for dinner is a highlight of your life?! Then about ten of us huddled around a table and talked about the things of God for about an hour. It was up close and personal. Mark Spence answered every question and objection they had, calmly and eloquently. I took copies of my new book, How to Know God Exists, and all the folks at our table wanted one (it’s a strange feeling signing books for atheists) who are somewhat like humans, but not quite. Then we posed for pictures, and left, almost bursting with joy after such a wonderful opportunity to meet and talk with these dear people. and the smarmy meter hit 10!
moving along to completely unrelated events that make Mr. Comfort look cool:
I am very fortunate in that I co-host an award-winning television program with actor Kirk Cameron. It’s in its third season, is aired in 70 countries, and is on 31 networks. why doesn't he ever give people fucking names! It's called The Way of the Master and has won The show has won the National Religious Broadcasters' People’s Choice 2004, 2005, 2006, and Best Program, 2005 and 2006. it's not a freakin' Emmy, Ray. This has helped to raise my profile (not my popularity) in the atheist community. actually, i had no freakin' idea that this show existed. your profile in the atheist community is high because you continually insult us and tell credulous idiots that we're immoral psychopaths. thanks for making children afraid of us, Ray. asshat. On one of our programs, Kirk and I took an orangutan to lunch to discuss the subject of evolution. you brought a wild animal to a restaurant for what? I also called eight major airlines and asked if I could take an orangutan on board a plane with me, because he was a “relative.” you bothered innocent customer service representatives, who make a little more than minimum wage, with this ridiculous request? to say that you deliberately misrepresent evolution is to say that water is wet, Ray. Every one of the airlines said that he had to go into the cargo hold. Needless to say, the program isn’t very popular with atheists. and would you enjoy a TV show that insulted christians nonstop? of course not. However, these things (and the fact the ABC TV hosted a debate between Kirk and myself and two atheists NAMES!) have given me some sort of reputation Jeffrey Dahmer also had "some sort of reputation", and they daily frequent my blog and bombard me with questions. wquestions like "Ray, I've explained this 76 times already and you still tell the same lies. Do you just not read the comments, or are you deliberately lying?" Some of them boil with anger, others mock, and some are polite. almost all are polite. much more polite than Ray. But all of them obey the rules and make sure that they give God a capital “G.” If they don’t, their comment is deleted. my comments almost always get deleted. and I capitalize god, bible, and jesus and i don't use curse words.
In a day when the foolishness of atheism is gaining credibility with so many again with the namecalling. asshat., I thought it would be unique and extremely beneficial to publish questions that were asked by these atheists, along with my answers i could have come up with those answers by randomly combining Jesus, God and pray in a Mad Libs fashion. As soon as I had that thought, there was a big bang, and out came the book. Amazingly, the text fell together, the page numbers fell in line, it bound itself, the cover designed itself, and then out of nowhere a title evolved: You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think. Incredibly, there was no author, no printer, and no publisher. It was a modern miracle. What sort of crazy person would you think I was if I said that nobody wrote the book? That really is crazy-talk. So why would anyone give any credibility to an atheist? *sigh* that's just insane, doesn't address the Big Bang theory at all, doesn't address evolution in any substantive way, AND if Ray did read the comments on his blog, he'd know better.
*Why do I harp on Mr. Comfort so much? Mr. Comfort despises atheists. One would think atheists broke into his house, burned it to the ground, then stood outside and laughed while anally raping his grandmother and pouring sugar into the gas tank of his brand new SUV. It's unhealthy how obsessed he is with atheists.
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